To ask your household income with 3-4 DC in private school?

[Lemoning]

And are you comfortably living, affording savings and holidays and not worrying about money? Pre tax income, and obviously including the school fees in your outgoings, ie: they're not paid by GP or similar.

I sometimes wonder if we're going to regret starting down the private school road because of money worries later on. Our income pre tax is about £200k.

I dont think its that you cant afford it , its what you feel is a piority .

You choose where u live etc

if say costs were 5k out of the family budget it leaves 5k for a family to live on lol

I survive on less than a quarter of 5k for housing and everything else so I would say u could afford a holiday too

or am I missing something lol

Windmill I did Comprehensive -> Cambridge and can't say I ever felt slightly inferior to anyone due to their educational background. I felt inferior to those who breezed to an easy first (I didn't!) but if anything the attitude to privately educated kids was "poor dears - their parents had to pay loads of cash to get them here - we got here all by ourselves".

I went to a very state school heavy college so maybe that helped or maybe things have changed since your dh went. (I was late 90s so things could have changed again since then.)

He was late 70's. Hadn't done any Latin and hadn't been taught to properly punctuate. He felt he had to struggle more than many there and had to build up his confidence, even in his early 30s.

I don't think he ever thought of anyone as "poor dears".

I think everything in life is different for everyone in it and everyone takes something different from every experience which to them is unique.

Hmmmm - punctuation.....

. = decimal place
! = factorial
() = do this operation first
, = thousands
? = oh shit I have to answer this

We don't live in London, but just moved out of NYC, in large part because I feel that it makes sense to move to the suburbs, where the schools are great (and free!) and we can put the $1m saved on private education towards college funds, trips overseas, hobbies etc.

My nephews go to local middle and elementary schools in Connecticut, both play instruments, one is involved in theatre, dance, baseball and computer animation, and the younger does martial arts, baseball and chess. They do not seem to be suffering in any way from a lack of private education, and it just so happens that their local secondary school is the best in the state.

Might a move to an outstanding catchment area be an option?

Using my alternate name for this. we have successfully educated 4 dc through private on an income of just under £200 k, however we are in Yorkshire, and our mortgage is only a quarter of yours.
Based on the fact that your mortgage is paid off in under 5 years I would go for state now, and private at 11 onwards. You will need to top up with tutoring, although you may be able to do a lot of it yourself with appropriate books.
For us at primary the main advantages of fee paying were hours ( much longer for working parents) , seem less wrap around care, much better competitive sports, smaller class sizes and no adherence to the NC.
If you are in London/se then wrap around/ hours may well be not such of an issue ( our local primary had no provision at all outside 9-3:15 and the local childminder was both full and oblivious to the maximum allowable numbers of kids).
When we started on the fee paying route uni was still fee free, however we do not pay our uni aged kids fees. One has funded fees from an external source, the next is doing medicine and so will have to pay back the loan from their private income . We do pay their accommodation, phones, travel, random crap, and expect them to live on the loan ( approx 3k so not riches but doable).
We have still managed to live comfortably in a five bed country house with land, holidays much less often than 3x year, but I am no massive fan of holidays, and DH is away a lot with work, and the dc have many a school trip, often abroad so not missing out by any means.

There's your solution, OP! Move to Yorkshire. God's own county.

This thread has been very interesting reading but I have say, I am no closer to a decision! DH is now willing to look at state for primary after discussing it again today. But to complicate things further, today we received an offer for our DS to start reception at academically selective school 4-18 that is one of the top 20 in the country. If we turn it down we are probably burning bridges for him to apply again at 11+.

One thing that has hit a nerve is 'good education' versus 'qualifications'. I have A+ qualifications from the state system, but feel I cannot write a decent letter, make appropriate conversation in some situations, have that inner confidence that private school colleagues seem to exude. I also have no debating skills or public speaking skills. These things all count for something.

FWIW, I don't think we could ever move out of London because of work, family ties. I am also aware that if we sell our London home we stop accumulating wealth on that. Currently £100k a year increase in value and has been for the past 10 so definitely a consideration.

Correction - has been less than that in the past 10 years but overall still a consideration.

I find some people's lifestyle and pov truly fascinating. I struggle to get my head around it tbh.

There are so many comments along the lines of 'we send our dc private because we think it's so important. Yes, we work really long hours and have to forgoe holidays and luxuries but it's worth it for the dc's education'.

Really? It's worth it? Why? So that your dc can follow your example...get a decent job, settle down, then spend 20+ years working themselves stupid, sacrificing things just to get their dc into private school?

I really don't see the point in treating life like a rehearsal. This is it. The actual, real thing, that people should be living.

I would rather chew off my left arm than sacrifice my family's time, holidays and luxuries...that's what life is all about. That's the point surely?

Nah, the point is the next generation.

But some people are natural workaholics. Some people love their work. Some people aren't sacrificing that much to send them. Some people aren't sacrificing anything at all. Some people are just a tiny bit less rich. Some people like the reassurance it provides. Some people like the possibly easier relationship with the school if something goes wrong. Some people expect their DC to have a strong work ethic and put lots back into society.

But these are not just 'our' luxuries/holidays/experiences.

They are the next generations too.

Keepingupwiththejoness, that is how I feel.

Wuldric, that is how my DH feels

Problem is we can both see the others' point too.

I feel another spreadsheet looming. I think honestly that if we had a bit more income we would do it.

Lemon, I see your dilemma. That inner confidence seems so alluring, but private doesn't guarantee it. Self-esteem comes from so much more than education. It sounds as though this will put your family under financial pressure. There are undoubtedly lots of opportunities that a private school can give (academic and other), but will being great at a sport/language/debating or having great results/getting into the right university make your dc any happier? What would succeeds look like? Confidence? Charisma? A professional or well paid job? How will you measure sucessful parenting? And can these things be achieved through a private education?

Ifad, I can't do spelling and grammar (dyslexic), but have held my own in a very elite career. But I am super confident and smart...I have only ever been held back by old boys networks, but as I was never a candidate for an elite all male private school there was little I could do about that! I am certainly a shit loads happier and more balanced than many off my peers who always seem to be striving/comparing/working like hell... For what end I am not sure?

Lemon - get over it.
With an income of 250k school fees will be a drop in the ocean.
It's 12k a year (ish) plus uniform and trips etc and yes, it's worth it.
They DO get into Grammar school and then they DO go on to Oxbridge.

Yes. Do it. Stop troubling yourself and just get on with it.

Or you'll have to spend the money on - what exactly ?

I think it is more helpful to look at net income in doing the sums as to what it is affordable. A gross salary of £200K is actually about £120k net, as some of it will be taxed at 50%. Given the amount of your mortgage costs, you will not be able to afford to put 4 DC through private schools, particularly as they will inevitably overlap. Assuming £20k per DC per year for a good private day school in London or the South East, that is £80k out of taxed income.

Also, please bear in mind that law, in common with other professions, is not the safe option it used to be and there are no guarantees that your DH will maintain his current level of earnings.

If private education is important to you both - and it does sound as though DH is making the decision alone - then why don't you raise the funds by re-mortgaging your house, as it appears to have substantial equity. There are some good deals around at the moment.

Only you can decide what is better for your DC and what is right for one may not be right for all. There are some excellent state schools and some rubbish state schools, ditto re private. The received wisdom - with which I probably agree - is that a bright DC will probably do well anywhere with good parental support - but those who struggle or who have special needs will almost always be better off going private. A private school is able to offer smaller class sizes, more accountability to parents, and a wider curriculum: in particular, the opportunity to study the Classics - Greek and Latin - which is sadly lacking in most state schools (well done Boris for your efforts in bringing it back!).

I am not sure that I agree that private school pupils necessarily have more confidence. Many do acquire a veneer of polish - a way of speaking an acting - which appear confident. However, they have the same insecurities as everyone else, possibly more so as they have only mixed with people from a narrow social spectrum and can easily find themselves outside their comfort zone.

I would worry about your DH's belief that he can buy the DC places at Oxbridge. If anything, it is probably 'easier' to obtain a place from a state school, partly because of the pressure on the best universities to admit more state school entrants but, also, because the universities perceive that an applicant with A* grades from a state school is likely to be a better candidate than one with similar grades from a private school.

Your DH's attitude will also put great pressure on your DC to succeed academically. You need to accept that they are individuals who will ultimately need to choose their own path. I don't want to worry you but one of my DC's contemporaries dropped out of Oxford after one year to run a stall at Portobello Market because he was disillusioned with academia: another turned down a place at Cambridge to study hairdressing to 'spite her parents' whom she felt were putting too much pressure on her!

Good luck, whatever you decide!

Is it harder to turn down now you have an offer?

Out of interest do schools in London test / offer at different times?

They all test at the end of the year here (Dulwich schools).

Scholarships are not only a pat on the back - it depends upon which school you're talking about. Some will place a flat reduction (15% is common), others far more (info upon application or enquiry usually and depends upon the type…sport, music, academic) and yet others will offer the set reduction but will make it very plain that they don't expect you to take the reduction unless you need to. Bursaries are then based purely on financials and often only linked then to an awarded scholarship.

Surely three years at a top end university can offer all the possibility for debate, public speaking and social chit chat skills that anyone could need?