To ask your household income with 3-4 DC in private school?

[Lemoning]

And are you comfortably living, affording savings and holidays and not worrying about money? Pre tax income, and obviously including the school fees in your outgoings, ie: they're not paid by GP or similar.

I sometimes wonder if we're going to regret starting down the private school road because of money worries later on. Our income pre tax is about £200k.

I think the OP's main difficulty stems from servicing a £48k p.a. mortgage tbh.

Seriously, TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND POUNDS??

Apparently so.

ThornSayre - no need to be sarcastic, each school in our area (there are 5 of them grammars + 2 boys selectives) has different format of exams, if there were no tutoring - no child can pass them, anyone would tell you.
So if I wasn't tutoring my kids, another child who was tutored would get a place. It is as simple as that.

Giving them one paper each would not make any sense at all. Past papers and various tests are available free on the internet to download and the cost of accessing them is zero. So nothing to do with money. Research is time, not money again.

So deprivation should not really come into the picture here.

I agree. That is the way it is now. It didn't used to be, when Grammar schools were set up for poor / deprived but naturally clever children.

Yes, resources are available on the internet but my parents didn't own any books and told me that if I got into the grammar they wouldn't be able to afford the uniform, and besides there would be no boys and I would have more homework.

Deprivation absolutely comes into the picture.

The only advantage my kids have over others of the same abilities is that I spend my time to work with them. One hour of tuition a week isn't going to cut the mustard without support at home. In that respect - deprivation equals lack of parental involvement. Had English been my first language I could then help them with VR and composition. But sadly I was unable to.

Maths and NVR were easier for me to help and explain.

It is a lie that really poor deprived children benefited from grammar schools. It was ordinary working class kids who did, not the poorest of the poor. Children like that who won places often couldn't afford to go because they couldn't afford the school uniform.

And even if they went, then often the girls often got streamed like my mum into the commercial classes, while the better off girls did the academic classes. One teacher actually fought for my mum to do Latin as she was so bright. The Latin teacher continually made sarcastic remarks in the classroom about her poverty.

I think many middle class people haven't a clue what it is like to grow up in poverty. All the rubbish I read about - anyone can achieve if they set their mind to it. The reality is that the barriers are enormous if you come from real poverty.

Haven't read whole thread but my grandmother passed the 'scholarship' to high school (equivalent to grammar) at 14. Her father couldn't afford the fare to school or uniforms. She left school to work in a factory. She always resented not having had the opportunity to go. She also had a loathing of uniforms!
Our DC went private, DS1 from 8-18, DS2 12-18, DD 11-16. Minimum wage or benefits. They got scholarships/bursaries/free places.

Grennie my dad was dirt poor(his clothes were donated by the big house),newspaper in shoes etc and went to a very posh grammar.

I'm confused as on another thread it was said you could just do nights to pay for school fees and that anybody could.Examples were cited.

If people on £200k can't afford it I don't get how those on a faction of that could.I just don't.

My DD1 went to a private school to do 6th form. State before that. She is now at a RG uni.

DD2 started the same school in Y6 having had the first 5 years at a state primary. She is in Y11 now and doing very well. Predicted all A* for GCSE.

I would say start them at state primary then move to private and save yourself some money.

You know, this thread started out as a fairly fascinating glimpse into another world, but reading antimatter's statement that deprivation shouldnt really come into the picture here has actually made me feel a bit sick.

Anti also the hours tutoring was on top of your kids having a private education(a far bigger advantage) and be able to buy in an expensive area.

How are the above not privilege?

We've done on it on about that income. Some years less, some years more, income varies year to year.

When we started them off (three DC) at aged 2 we weren't sure we could afford to keep going privately with all three, for all their education. But we are well into senior school now and will succeed with finishing their schooling privately.

Our house is nice but we do have a large mortgage. We plan to overpay like crazy when the kids have finished school. We have newish cars. The only thing I would say we sacrificed is on holidays. We aren't able to go away as much as I would like, although we do have the odd holiday.

200k is easy peasy to pay for 1 kid at private all the way through.

Still pretty comfortable with 2.

Getting a bit tighter for 3.

Serious decisions about 'luxuries' for 4.

Shrug, if you have the money it is your choice how to use it.

I don't feel there is anything wrong with using your money to buy a private education if that is what you prefer. We used ours on buying a house in a better schooling area.

This sort of decision is why we are having 2 kids. 2 kids means we can have the luxury of choice that we would not have if we went head and had more.

OP I teach in a London state primary. It is socially/economically diverse and really benefits from having such a wide mix of kids. Children from the school have gone on to get scholarships for independent secondary schools. Some children have left in years 3, 4 or 5 to go to prep school so they can build friendships before secondary school. My point is you don't have to pay for private all the way through if you don't want to. My thoughts regarding our DD ( still a baby) are that we will send her to a state primary and then review when she is in Year 5 or so.

Talkinpeace. Pay attention. The complaint is that you assume the men bring in the cash and the women are decorative household ornaments. At most income levels in the top quartile men and women in a couple are equal contributors. And not only on MN. Read "the XX factor" and stop insulting.

Music scholarships can be worth 40% fee discount on entire fees, not just music lessons. Some schools lower in the league tables offer good financial scholarships (25% at Francis Holland, 50% at St Catherine's, 50% at Putney High). Academic scholarships at top schools are more status 10% discount at LEH, £60 at some others. Latymer Upper has a good scholarship but I don't recall how much.

The difference between 3 & 4 children on holiday is huge, you always need a bigger car, accommodation costs really go up (we can fit in 2 rooms, you'd need 3).

If you have girls the GDST schools are v good value but class sizes are not 11 or 12. I think class sizes of around 20 are best in primary school, lots of friendship possibilities, more likelihood of stimulating class discussion, different teaching for different abilities. Most private primaries will have TAs in KS1 & that is better IMHO than a 1 teacher in a class of 12.

OP, I agree with Wuldric's reasoning but I say it COULD be done if you were to work at paying down your mortgages while interest rates are low, work at paying off all three mortgages and your buy to let's could fund some of your school fees.

We are putting 2 children through private school on slightly less than half your income.

Our mortgage is a forth of yours (understand you're overpaying currently)
We live in North Essex, my husband commutes to the city. Is moving further out an option for you?
Assuming your house is worth a fair bit and you have 60% equity you could probably move to certain parts of the home counties and buy a nice house outright/with a much smaller mortgage.
Added bonus is that the school fees here will be lower than London school fees, we currently pay about 17k a year (years 1 & 4) most of the private schools here are thereabouts other than one which is 30% more but is mainly boarding or long hours and Saturday school.

My husband has an hours train journey and pays about £4k for his season ticket, when we can afford it we will upgrade to a first class ticket just so he gets a seat!

State education and plenty of other luxuries may suit the OP.
I do not want to debate the benefits of Private education I just want to dispute that it is for the super rich.
I know of many families who have paid and are not super rich , but do have tiny mortgages and perhaps enjoy budget holidays.

London independent schools may be different and fees and other costs vary greatly but this is what it would cost to be a day pupil local to me in Kent.
Years R to 2 £7,000 per annum
3-4 £9,000
5-6 £11,000
7 - 13 £18,000 approx
Total at todays prices: approx £187 + uniform + extras.
And there are other private schools in this area with lower fees than these.

In prep extras are not great except for optional music lessons:
Music lessons are approx £40 ph (about £10 more than one would pay privately outside of school in this area).

Non-means tested scholarships are possible anything between 10 to 50%. I certainly also know of people who have negotiated (non-means tested) discounts for their families.

Moving children into private just at 6th form sounds a strange move to me, I don't know anyone who has done that but plenty who have left private for state sixth form.

It is worth noting that the 15 hours free childcare applies to private schools and is up to the end of the term in which the child is 5. So for summer born children the whole of reception year could be subsidised.

Other points worth thinking about related to the budget:
Families can go on holidays at cheaper times as school year is different to state schools.
Uniforms will cost hundreds but be far better quality - last longer.
Long school hours mean that for younger children you might not have to pay the extra cost of after school clubs/ morning clubs if both parents work (for younger children).
The fees may include lunch, snacks, and various activities that parents pay extra for at state schools.
Some schools include Saturdays.

It also depends on your catchment secondaries. Where we live the 2 secondary schools (comps, no grammars here) are excellent, and a lot of people send their kids to private primary, then they go into the top sets at the comp and do very well there.

It is what we are doing.( also, I just did not like the private secondaries here all that much).

Also, things happen. I have reached my 40s realising how fragile life is. I have one friend who quit his job through depression, at home for 2 years, wife suddenly has to pay all the bills alone.
Another breadwinner got cancer, ok now, but 2 years out of work. Another one got fired unexpectedly which knocked his self esteem and earnings fir six.

And my DH quit his city job to train and become a teacher and earn 10% of what he used to (goodbye school fees! Just as well the state option is good). He was burned out after 15 years at a bank.

Just bear that in mind, these things do happen and it is good to keep open minded, as you are, about state education.

I am afraid I would make a similar point to Fiscal: think back to Jan 2008 and look around to see how many of your DH's colleagues who were around then are around now. Do the same for firms in your field.

Our circle of friends includes lots of lawyers, some in private practice, some in-house. I struggle to find a couple that has not suffered a redundancy in the last five years. A few have had two or more. Most have found new jobs now but it has taken a while and in some cases they are much more junior than you would ever have guessed in 2008.

Between now and 2040 I would budget for a 2-year recession every 4-5 years. You might be pleasantly surprised, but then again you might not. And I would not rely on houses for pensions. To put itin perspective, we are slightly younger than you and pension contributions are around 20pc of gross salary.

But that's pessimist me.

Our household income is a lot less, about £90k pre tax. The difference is that we have no mortgage which in this case means we probably have only about £1k a year less than you.

We have 2dcs at private school and afford at least one really nice holiday a year. We have about £30k of savings which we know we can use if we need to but want to leave it till we retire if possible.

The dcs school has brilliant sibling discount which means we could afford a 3rd child if we wanted.

I calculated the fees and our earnings for the whole school life of the dcs and inflated the fees each year but left our wages flat. We included outgoings including holidays to ensure we could still afford some luxuries. We wanted to see worse case without pay rises or possible scholarships and so on.

With the large mortgage payment it would be tough unless the school has a good sibling discount policy. I totally agree re being able to afford holidays and extras.It may sound selfish but we would have waited till secondary if that had been the case

Lemon ing, why not move to a grammar a school area and commute to work? Spend your cash on buying yourselves into catchment, at least that way it will still be there at the end of it all.

IME school fees are 12k a year secondary. 4 kids, plus 50k a year mortgage, is your problem here.