To have told my leturer that it is wrong that they're grooming us to say good things about university when OFSTED come??

[MrsRBrand]

I was in a professional studies lecture this morning (Primary school teaching degree).

The lesson was allocated to learning about assessment methods.

The lights were dimmed and a power point delivered for the duration of the lesson. Saying that the teaching course are due to get an ofsted visit imminently and in the event of ofsted wanting to talk to us (students) we are encouraged to only say positive things. And will be invited to a prior meeting to be told what to say.

When I said that I think it is wrong that we are being groomed to say positive things the lecturer said 'if you were working for a school you would be loyal to that school'. I said that as an employee of the school, of course I would but I am a paying customer at this university and I want to be free to tell the truth'

(As well as being an interesting course, uni has lost a lot of our work from the first year, they put us on placements in schools where some mentors are trained to mentor us and some are not, creating disparity between peoples placement grades.)

I said that 'you wouldn't prep children to behave well and then imply that they wont do as well in their grades if they do not'.

AIBU to have said something, (no-one else did) but lots came up to me afterwards to say they agreed with what I said?

No you were not unreasonable at all.

Are you going to tell ofsted that they did this?

I am going to start by emailing the tutor and and asking he for a copy of the power point for that lesson.
If she gives it to me I can show Ofsted.
Of she does not then that will indicate that something's not right.
So corrupt.

This is the problem whistleblowers face: they can face hell and ruin if they do tell the truth.

In your situation, I would be highly tempted to say exactly what I thought: we are adults, we can't be scared into saying the "right" things like schoolkids. (But I am biased: I happen to have a lot of negative thoughts towards my university; I was in the first year to pay tuition fees, my particular uni seemed to take great pleasure in charging everybody extra fees for vandalism. Result? Lots of vandalism! They also keep getting in touch to ask for money, but I expect all unis do this.)

If you did, what might consequences be for you? Can universities take revenge on their students by giving them bad references later, for example? Or are they weak and the customers strong?

have been told I HAVE complete confidential, private surveys on university but have to give my student number, name and address. All part of ofsted etc.

Didnt feel i could make my views open when lecturers can access everything I say about them and uni.

I'm genuinely horrified that they're teaching you what to say - surely the whole point of Ofsted is to gauge how well they're doing, not to play some game of jumping through hoops where you have to pretend everything is peachy!

I would make sure you mention this to ofsted - perhaps something along the lines of "I'm not sure whether I'm allowed to speak to you, as I didn't attend the meeting on what we're supposed to say but..."

Yes, we're at the mercy of the lecturers. At the end of the course they can either recommend us for QTS or not so we need them on our side.
I'm a mature student and less likely to be bullied and manipulated.
I will just tell ofsted that I worry that if I tell the truth that it will affect my grades.

Yeah, go on, tell Ofsted all about the nasty mean university telling you what to say.

And then when their inspection grade drops, they will be shut down immediately (because they'll lose quota, their courses won't be viable and the Uni won't underwrite them and ALL the lecturers - including the ones you like - will be made redundant) and you'll be the one with the teaching qualification from the shit Education Department. Go you.

Ofsted itself is corrupt. It's a political tool to do Gove's bidding. Any intending teacher who doesn't understand that yet obviously hasn't been paying attention.

I don't think they'll be shut down based upon a couple of negative comments, just given recommendations.
I'm with you Haggerty, ofsted are just as corrupt as all the other cogs in this system but what I do resent is being threatened and coerced.

In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

Where I worked (IT) we had the following rules for external assessments (meeting various quality standards)

1. Be honest
2. Be positive (as long as it is honest)
3. Be open (provided honest and positive)

So don't go volunteering negative information unless asked directly.

As a consumer of the university, you should be allowed to say whatever you think.

As a teacher at a school, I would (as a parent) probably expect you to follow the 3 points above, though if there was for example a safeguarding issue that you knew wasn't being addressed by the school, I would expect that to be raised regardless, similarly cheating in SATs and other serious issues.

I don't think they'll be shut down based upon a couple of negative comments, just given recommendations.

You don't understand. Ofsted will make recommendations - but a dip in an Ofsted grade will render the Department unviable because they won't get quota next year. The university will close the department, not Ofsted.

That way, Ofsted don't get the blame and trainees will continue to view their universities as the 'bad guys'.

What you've got to ask yourself, OP, is why your lecturers are so terrified that they would 'coerce' you like this. Why would otherwise honourable professional people act like this? And why are you so hell bent on making a big deal of this instead of lodging your concerns about the quality of your training with the people who have the power to do something about it (the provider) instead of with the fucking Stasi Ofsted.

And also bear in mind that your peers on your PGCE course might not thank you for making a big song and dance about this. In order to maximise your employability, you want your qualification to come from a decent provider. Not one that's just been shut down for failing its Ofsted.

Boils my piss when trainees do this.

I work in teacher education. Can you tell?

I'm surprised at this - we are very firmly reminded, repeatedly, that we mustn't suggest to students that they should be nice on the NSS, nor should we use class time to discuss the NSS, or suggest that their degree will be better thought of if we do well in the NSS.

If that's what they're doing, it's not good. Not sure you need to get cross about the lights being dimmed though - I usually do that so the powerpoint is more visible!

If you do want a copy of the powerpoint, I suggest you don't email in the terms you suggested!

I put my ppts on the VLE, but if I hadn't done so yet (I always leave a gap to make it clear that the PPT is an accessory and not a substitute for attendance) I wouldn't much care to be emailed and told that if I didn't send it, I'd be corrupt!

Fascinating Aida said OFSTED stands for Overpaid Fuckers Shafting Teachers Every Day.

As Lily said...

I'd be surprised if your grades are strictly at the mercy of this though - every piece of work you do will have to be marked, and 2nd marked - often using anonymous marking i.e. tutors don't know whose work they're marking - and then moderated by an External Examiner and ratified in a meeting with people external to the programme.
It's a bit simplistic to think not saying the right thing to OFSTED will result in less-favourable marks.

Sounds to me as if you were being briefed on the OFSTED and shown how to make sure your positive views on your course can be properly conveyed. Can't see a problem with that and your posts on this come across as rather emotive.

If you do actually have legitimate complaints about your course I hope you have raised them at the time they occurred, or with your student reps or with the course leader or with the head of department.

Ladies I have the height of admiration for you my lecturer (not UK) was lauding the benefits of a body like Ofsed in assessing key performances for teachers and schools in a recent lecture. All I could think from reading many, many posts on education here was be careful what you wish for. This is just another facet of the many issues I see with Ofsed. To be honest I do not see any benefit at all to Ofsted, from parents competing for local schools and in turn driving down the performance in other schools because of Ofsed ratings to university lecturers trying to put a lean on students it is outrageous.

Well I didn't think I'd change my mind but now you put it that way Haggerty, I can see what you mean..

Not sure about the word "grooming" but they are just scared....

I'll just drop it- I'm just very wary of being steered but I think ofsted are the bad guys here

HaggertyF- maybe if universities weren't so busy trying to coerce students into lying for them, these students wouldn't have to lie. As a mature student who started the PGCE and was mucked around by the university and who'd university enabled a placement school in behaving in an illegal and questionable way, I would love the opportunity to talk to OFSTED because why should a course be allowed to continue while ripping students off to the tune of £12000? Not to mention the knock in confidence...

Working for training providers and colleges for over 10 years I'm well versed in the pre-ofsted meeting frenzy but that is always aimed at staff.

With our learners we do our best to remind them what course they are actually on, how long they've been doing it, you know - the basics - and invariably there is always someone who draws a blank when asked such a question ;)

Ofsted inspectors are not daft and can tell if wool is being pulled over eyes, in my opinion I think it's a very bad idea to prep students like this but sooo much rides on the ofsted scores for establishments that I can understand why people do it, even though I don't agree with it.

Just be honest if asked and bear in mind one day as a teacher that will be you under the ofsted microscope with instructions from the top to do everything you can for that coveted grade 1.