Children on a school trip allowed to pet my dog... I'm bloody LIVID.

[HarderToKidnap]

Should I phone the school about this? Every week I walk up to a local cafe with dog and toddler DS. I secure dog to pushchair on a short lead, he tucks himself behind the pushchair and snoozes in the sun. DS and I have cake and tea and sit by window so I'm next to dog, who is outside.

Today lots of primary school kids were out on a trip going from shop to shop collecting money for something. They went in the cafe before me and they left as I arrived. I placed my order, turned round to look at dog out of window and there must have been ten or twelve children crowded round him stroking him. He was covered in children. Teacher next to them smiling benignly and agreeing with kids how cute he was.

Dog is ten year old toy breed, is very cute but also very very nervous of children and has snapped at kids before. I never let unknown children stroke him. I was LIVID. For on,e he could easily have bitten one of the children and then they would be hurt and he may be put down. For two, who in their right mind lets lots and lots of children crowd an unknown dog???? I marched out there, said loudly "he doesn't like children and they shouldn't be touching him without asking the owners permission!" I was quite sharp but not snouty. Teacher said "yes yes OK" without really making eye contact and shepherded them off.

Should I phone the school concerned? Or was my sharp comment enough? Dogs are left unattended outside shops etc quite often and really the teacher should never be allowing the children in her charge to touch them, let alone crowd them. AIBU?

Usually on threads like these I have some sympathy with the dog owner. Not this one though. I have a 6 year old, loves dogs and is used to them. Although he is advised not to stroke strange dogs he sometimes still does (he is young). If your dog is a danger to children, he shouldn't be left alone outside like that OR he should be muzzled when left alone. I'm not sure the teacher should have let them all stroke the dog, any dog might be overwhelmed by so many children and she didn't know the dog, so she was unreasonable in that BUT frankly, so are you OP.

That they do, Pianodoodle, and I don't disagree, but I was talking about the scenario in the OP (if you read my earlier posts). Leaving a snappy dog who is "very very nervous of children" unattended and unsupervised. Unfair to the dog also in that situation.

Yes teach children not to touch dogs out and about, plenty of dogs are nervous around children and a massive group would freak a lot of dogs out, it doesnt mean they need a muzzle
I have 3 children and have a very nervous dog so can see both sides, but i think children need to be taught to leave well alone as ANY dog could snap even if they have never before

I would call the school, the teacher should never have allowed that to happen. It's all well and good saying the OP was in the wrong for leaving the dog outside and telling her to muzzle her dog but there will always (unfortunately) be strong and powerful dogs who are in the wrong hands and not socialised or restrained properly who could do major damage to a child and so they need to be taught never to approach an unknown dog.

Once I was in the park with my dog on a lead and a toddler came and stuck it's face in my dog's face- my dog snapped her head up and licked the kid's face, the toddler burst into tears and the parent had the cheek to make a comment about my dog!

The teacher was irresponsible, I wouldn't phone the school though. She will be kicking herself already and won't ever allow it again. A momentary lapse in sense is all.

We have a dog and although she has never snapped at anyone I still wouldn't leave her unattended outside anywhere. I just wouldn't. I am not a natural dog lover so I wonder if that makes me ultra cautious. I honestly just don't think it's worth it.

I didn't ask whether I was BU in leaving dog outside. It's a common sight where I live, no one has ever approached him, he's not in the way and there has never been as incident, so I did not think I was being BU ( hadn't even thought about it really). Now there has been an incident obviously I will need to have a rethink about it. However, the actual question was should I phone the school.

I don't think this is real. Who would have a snappy dog and small DS? If this is real YABU!

I am not a dog owner and to read threads like this makes me bloody nervous about my children and dogs.

I had assumed that if an owner was concerned about their dog and violence, no matter how innocuous, then the dog had to be muzzled. Turns out I am wrong. And it will be the last time I do ask an owner if my children can pet a dog because the owner could have concerns, like you OP, but have made the decision in certain situations it is ok i.e. not a big group of children, but what happens if they are wrong and turns out it is not just in the situations they had previously thought. Sadly, having read this thread, I will avoid dogs completely when out with my children, because it is too dependant on the owners perception of their own dog.

You are an idiot. You left a snappy dog unnattended. You are the type of person who gives responsible dog owners AND dogs a bad name.
My dog has never snapped at or bitten anyone. And she doesn't need to be muzzled because she is always on a lead and she is always supervised. Yes there are idiotic people who will approach a strange dog. But the onus is on YOU to stop that from happening.

I think the owner tied the dog up securely. If people chose to go to the dog then the responsibility is with them. In this case the teacher who should have checked with the owner first.

If your dog snaps at children, then you shouldn't be leaving him unattended without a muzzle.

Either stay with him all the time or muzzle him.

Yes the teacher was stupid to allow the kids to pet him without asking owner's permission, but some people are stupid and you have the responsibility as the dog's owner, to factor that stupidity in to your own dog-owning behaviour. People should always ask dog owner's permission to interact with dog, but lots of people and particularly children, don't know that and it's your responsibility as a dog owner, to deal with that because your dog is more likely to bite the irresponsible/ inexperienced person, than they are to bite your dog.

YABU.

You should never leave a dog unattended, especially if you already know it is unfriendly with children.

What were you thinking?

Oh, actually, you weren't thinking at all, were you?

Honestly, people like you make me so mad, you give the rest of us responsible dog owners a bad name.

Don't even get me started on the fact that you are thinking of blaming the school for your own irresponsible behaviour!

"My favourite kind of AIBU.

Lots of posters: YABU and actually irresponsible.

OP: No I'm not.

Why ask?"

Quite.

And it may be a common sight to see dogs tied up outside, OP. But perhaps they don't have form for snapping.

So the answer is that you acted worse than the 'teacher'
I wouldn't phone the school, but then i would muzzle my dog

exactly feelingood

Of the first 99 posts here I've counted 70 that say YABU and it is your responsibility to properly supervise or restrain your dog in a public place (whilst acknowledging the teacher was at fault too). Of the remaining 29 a fair few were your own posts so I think that's your answer......

My little one was bitten by a dog. It was tied up immediately outside the doors to her nursery and she got to it before I could stop her. Apparently it didn't like children either. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

Am now trying to rehabilitate her by taking her to socialisation sessions at the local garden centre with some hearing puppies in training.

No you shouldn't phone the school because you've already dealt with it and the teacher has already apologised. What do you expect them to do? Fire the teacher? Tell the children off?

This isn't the last time this will happen either. If its not school children from that particular school it may be another. Or smaller children with parents. Just muzzle the dog.

If people chose to go to the dog then the responsibility is with them.

No, the law does not support this argument, the onus in on the owner to have the dog under control at all times. In a situation like this, had one of the children been bitten, I expect lawyers acting for that child would argue that 'under control' should have included 'supervised' .

The teacher should know better than to allow that to happen!

I would ring the school and speak to them, it could be used as an educational opportunity to teach children how to approach dogs.

The golden rules are:

Wait! Always wait for an adult before approaching a strange dog.

Ask! Always ask the owner's permission before petting a dog.

Gentle! Be gentle when petting a dog.

Slow! Move slowly when meeting and petting a dog.

I would be very annoyed this happened, it put's your dog in a very bad position as if he snapped it would be all his fault! Which is not really the case at all.

YANBU - and I am at the teacher letting the children crowd around and pet the dog. Regardless of his temperament, a teacher should not be encouraging her charges to pet an unknown dog.

Oh dear, the people who don't really read the thread cos they are frothing so hard have arrived! I'm not trying to blame the school, nothing happened to blame anyone for. My dog is essentially good natured and put up with ten kids crowding him. Another dog, perhaps a larger stronger breed, might not have done and the teacher really needs to not let lots of children pet an unknown dog whilst in her charge. Perhaps it would be the dog owners fault if their dog bit a child, but still the consequences for the child (and the teacher, probably) could be dire. We have a guy here who is homeless and has an unleashed Doberman, honey are always round the town together and the dog is routinely left outside shops, the hospital, the GP surgery etc. Teacher might let the kids approach him next time. Or the guy with two bull breeds who leaves them outside the shop for a long time every day. Teacher might let the kids approach them. I'm not sure if any of those dogs are aggressive, but I wouldn't unleash ten kids on them to find out. These situations ARE absolutely going to occur, where kids see unattended dog, fact of life.

Well arguably littelmrs you should have control of your LO.

If a dog is secure then it cannot roam about attacking and biting people.

If people goto the dog of their own freewill then the responsibility lies with the them.

If someone walks into the road and gets knocked over who is liable?

Yes but the owner is liable if there's an incident that's the trouble. Whatever happened to the teacher would not be comparable to the fact that the dog would have been PTS or fester in a shelter indefinitely.

The teacher was unwise but I am totally comfortable with the concept that any damage to a child would have been your fault.

by leaving a dog unattended unmuzzled you have told me that your dog is a placid calm dog, otherwise you wouldn't have taken that risk.

I know all dogs can snap but you make assesments based on what you see and no reasonable human would leave a snappy dog unattended at buggy height.
Forget the kids petting him if someone parked a buggy with a toddler in it next to your dog and the toddler reached to talk to doggy who is at child height you are asking for an accident.

This is MN and you were always going to get more than a pat and a there there silly teacher you will get many opinions looking at it from points of view that you hadn't considered.

Should you ring the school? No, simply, blame the teacher as much as you like, but ultimately if a child got bitten, you are at fault.