Actually, I am being really unreasonable. However I would like to ask those who have experienced Angel Feathers to....

[DioneTheDiabolist]

...answer a few questions that I have.

1). What does it feel like when you see that feather?

2). What are your thoughts when this happens?

And

3). What would you say are the long term (if any) effects that you would attribute to these encounters.

I understand that this belief has been the subject of some ridicule here. I have no intention of ridiculing anyone. This thread has been inspired by a previous AIBU thread, but is not a thread about a thread. I am not a journalist. I am not seeking results to use in an academic submission or publication. What I am seeking is knowledge and understanding in the hope that I can use it to help others.

IABU for the following reasons:
I only posted in AIBU for the traffic. If MN rule that I have breached guidelines, can it be moved and not deleted.

And I ask the skeptics not to put people off answering honestly. If you think it necessary, I can start another thread for all your thoughts to be discussed. Perhaps the scientifically minded of you could look at this as an information gathering excersise.

oh I think I know what Sublime means by epigenetics and the bible :)

ok I'm no expert on epigenetics and I'm not sure it's even proven to be significant, but it's about changes to a person affecting the genes they pass on.

It used to be believed that blacksmith's children would have big strong arms because daddy worked hard at the forge. That turned out to be nonsense, but if epigenetics is real there are 'some' small changes that can be indirectly passed on for a few generations.

Sublime is therefore claiming (well she read it on a website) that when god said he'd visit the sins of the fathers onto their children unto the fourth generation he was referring to epigenetics and was not a raving psychopath making a bloody thirsty threat to torture and kill someone's family after all.

well she read it on a website

There Back is with her crystal ball! Not very good at this psychic lark are you?

I read it in New Scientist (the science bit), the musings were my own. I'm not claiming anything because God came before anything we called epigenetics, which just describes what we have observed.

Yes. Like I said, a shaky analogy. An analogy, none the less - but not one that would lead us to suppose the Bible writers had an understanding of epigenetics.

The difference between you & I, sublime is that my beliefs are founded on solid reasoning & evidence.

Yours are not, which you acknowledge every time you use the word "faith".

Not all beliefs are equal. The fact of someone believing it does not, in itself, lend that belief any credibility at all. Only evidence can do that.

Sublime, now let me explain why I don't have beliefs the way you do. I ought to cut and paste this I say it so often.

Belief is where you pick something and decide it is true without any reason whatsoever to suggest that it is true. Pure guesswork.

Ok here goes.

I don't not have any knowledge which is 100% proven. However I can assign strong probabilities to things for which there is extensive evidence and weak probabilities for others.

I have not seen New York so of course I don't believe it exists, that would be silly. But I have 1000s of overlapping items of information supporting the existence of New York so for practical purposes I will act as though it exists. If evidence turns up that it doesn't then I will cease to act as though it exists. There will be no loss of faith since I had none in the first place.

If you show me evidence for the existence of god I will accept it. I never believed that god didn't exist.

I might use the word 'believe' in casual conversation, but it's a shortcut for "to the best of my knowledge".

"I believe I left the car keys in the kitchen' isn't a declaration of faith, but a statement that the available evidence points that way.

I read it in New Scientist (the science bit), the musings were my own well it's not impossible that you came up with the link between epigenetics and god's statement on your own, but it is remarkably like that can be found on right wing loony christian sites.

It's also been posted on MN before I think.

I imagine it's all moved on from the first page, but I shan't let that stand in my way.

If asked generally, I don't believe in anything supernatural of any kind, but when it comes to a personal level, a dear friend whose son committed suicide believes in spiritualism, reincarnation and "signs" and I couldn't begin to poo poo that belief because it helps them get up in the morning.

Back and Hettie - It works for me .

I've heard of angel feathers and received one earlier this year. it was a bit lost on me. I think it was for my non-relationship and was an encouragement. but I might be wrong. I can't understand why people want direct contact with angels - big nasty four-faced things, they are.

I asked the following question earlier but I think it got lot in the debate. I am really curious if anyone can answer it

Is believing that white feathers have been moved by angels a very new idea? I have had a google but can find no reference to it being anything but a very new 'belief'. What about other cultures? Is it just a British thing?

IAlwaysThought I don't know the answer to your question but it amazing how beliefs and superstitions are 'catching' or common across cultures.

Beliefs surrounding blood,for example, Holy Communion, Blood Sacrifice, Medicines made from blood, warriors bathing in blood, Cannibalism, Vampires, are prevalent across different cultures and religious beliefs. Somehow being able to take on the Spirit (unadulterated as in Vampirism, strengths as in warrior cultures, 'medicine), through blood, seems common.

If angels send feathers whenever people are distressed why isn't most of the third world knee deep in the fuckers? Or maybe angels don't give a shiny shit about people with dark skin?

oh dear....racist angels.....I am trying to remember the stained glass in my childhood church....and non-white angels....no I don't think so. Odd that.

I appear to be the only one on various threads (which I find both unbelievable and surprising) that is comfortable about science religion and mystic. I'm able to accept Santa to quantum physics. I kinda think they all have a place, dependant on my mood or situation. I'm as comfortable thinking a feather could be my nan ( I'm sure they often are) to saluting a magpie and preparing for Xmas and finding something scientific in the paper fascinating.

Is this an mn thing where you can only be one thing? Because RL I find is much wider and sometimes more believeable.

I think it's lovely that an adult can admit to believing in Santa and don't worry, you are no different really to those who believe in Allah, Jesus or Orbs.

Just as people are free to post on a thread. Others are free to ignore them. Curlew, your posts last night remind me of those annoying men in pubs who are always trying to get into the conversations of others in order to work it round to whatever axe they wish to grind (usually immigration or capitalism or something like that), right down to your You're trying to silence me bit at the end.

I often feel that these men can't start their own conversations because they know no one would be interested.

I find it fascinating that being on a higher plane seems to give you licence to be as rude as you like!

This probably wont go down to well but my feelings on angel feathers is much the same as religion. I believe religion, the bible and religious scriptures, as basically fairy stories for adults which were used to explain unexplainable phenomena before scientific explanations were developed and understood. Early religious leaders were basically charismatic people who narrated these 'stories' for the good of communities and then these 'stories' then became laws and mantras in order for social control to exist. With congregations falling, I believe the media now exert the same control over society.

As for angel feathers, in my opinion, people who have experienced bereavement or difficulties in life that their mind cannot deal with, look towards a spiritual explanation and find meaning in a phenomena that has scientific explanation (a bird has dropped a feather) and apportion meaning where none exists.

Why is it always cutsie stuff that gets chalked up as being a message? You don't get people saying 'I was just thinking about my dear old, long dead Uncle Bert when I saw I dog shit/ant/mosquito?

head it's not just cutsie stuff. Diviners commonly looked for signs in entrails...boak.

Geraldine Mackeesh (Sp?) examined faeces for her 'nutritional advice'. .

Pagan rituals contained all sorts of gruesome practises.

Like the idea of dog shit as a sign. Round here I'd say that means the apocalypse is due any moment.

Do people in heaven have wings? I just want to clarify that the feathers are not from grandad's wings, but are either from birds or from angels who are non human servants.

I know there are plenty of pictures of people with wings in heaven, but I don't recall seeing that in the bible and I think it says you get your own body back. At least one sect claims that that you do based on the words of the bible.

Carrier bags blowing across the street is another urban anecdote.....

love angels, love feathers..

Who cares what anyone else's opinion is...

Okay so get these feather sent to a lab and establish where it's from. If it's a bird then it's been plucked out by an angel you'd say? So angels can physically interact with worldly stuff? Are they invisible? What do they do when they're not plucking? Do they eat? Sleep?

I guess I'm referring to the cupcake brigade. angels/feathers/rainbows/robins.

Could be just a bird feather head. The meaningful thing is you found it at an appropriate moment.