Actually, I am being really unreasonable. However I would like to ask those who have experienced Angel Feathers to....

[DioneTheDiabolist]

...answer a few questions that I have.

1). What does it feel like when you see that feather?

2). What are your thoughts when this happens?

And

3). What would you say are the long term (if any) effects that you would attribute to these encounters.

I understand that this belief has been the subject of some ridicule here. I have no intention of ridiculing anyone. This thread has been inspired by a previous AIBU thread, but is not a thread about a thread. I am not a journalist. I am not seeking results to use in an academic submission or publication. What I am seeking is knowledge and understanding in the hope that I can use it to help others.

IABU for the following reasons:
I only posted in AIBU for the traffic. If MN rule that I have breached guidelines, can it be moved and not deleted.

And I ask the skeptics not to put people off answering honestly. If you think it necessary, I can start another thread for all your thoughts to be discussed. Perhaps the scientifically minded of you could look at this as an information gathering excersise.

The assumption that the 'repeatable result' is not just part of a larger pattern, maybe more a wavelength, where at some point the result will not be observed and in fact the opposite may occur.

Could you break that down a bit. Do you mean "scientists always assume that at some point the opposite may occur" or that that assume this is not the case?

Hettie I could elaborate but won't on this occasion. I expect if you looked you could find them with a concordance.

An example. The assumption that the 'repeatable result' is not just part of a larger pattern, maybe more a wavelength, where at some point the result will not be observed and in fact the opposite may occur

Strictly speaking, you're right.

An experiment can be done 1,000,000 times. We can never be certain that the 1,000,001st time won't produce a different result.

Every single scientist on the planet knows & acknowledges this. That's why you'll find that they will freely admit that they can't be 100% certain of anything. (Except possibly in mathematics).

Back Assume a result is repeatable because it has repeated several times. Could be part of a much larger pattern. Like chaos is not actually chaos, there are some, very large, patterns.

About the whole mockery thing.

The problem with people who believe in spite of a lack of any credible evidence or testable hypothesis is that they rely on faith. It is impossible to have an evidence based discussion with someone who has an invisible friend and thinks that feathers are in some way connected to angels, the afterlife, spirits or the ether or whatever. You see, they believe. Evidence has no impact. None is needed.

The evidential amongst us are derided for not having an answer to everything around us (i.e see above on quantum mechanics - though it is one of the most tested set of hypotheses about and it keeps standing up to measurement and logical scrutiny)

Oh and Bayes theory around probability is a mathematical approach to binomial tests. The scientific principle is based on the statistical analysis of out comes. Bayesian probability is about looking at the complete probability based on a number of discrete tests. Or at least thats how i read it. So applying it as suggested isnt quite right - unless you are applying it to probability calculations.

So when it is all said and done, when faced with people who disregard evidence and rely on faith and belief, for whom no amount of rational explanation will do, then I am afraid incessant, cruel and wholly unpleasant mockery is all that will do. Moral relativism and belief equivalence is all very well, but that doesn't get wheels invented or medicines tested.

In a thousand years, school children will look in their history texts and laugh at such fools as people today laugh at those who believed that the sun orbited the earth and that vast doses of arsenic were good for the skin.

I have a tin hat and a fireproof suit - flame away. Tis water off a ducks back - for i know that I am right and you are the ones that believe in fairies, pixies, crystal healing, the bermuda triangle, alien greys, invisible friends, the arctic nazis, homeopathy, magic amulets, holy water, the power of prayer, david icke and the feathers of angels.

Those that peddle these beliefs to people in pain and who are grieving are the worst sort of snake oil salesmen. They should be ashamed and shame on us for not tearing down their hoardings and exposing their lies.

Bah - religion.

Strictly speaking,

Have to be otherwise you get pseudo science.

Good post, Voice.

For me my Faith is the thing that stops me from relativism.

I'm not aware of anything in the Bible, sublime that says the slightest thing about genetics or epigenetics. If you've found a highly shaky analogy, then good for you. It's a bit like:

"The Bible talks about the Big Bang. It says "In the beginning....they're talking about the Big Bang!"

Faith and science (small s) are not mutually exclusive.

The OT was superseded by the NT with the arrival of Jesus.

Eh?

A) what has that to do with your mention of genetics in the bible.

b) don't be surprised if people in the bible could tell that babies looked a bit like their parents. They lacked science, but they were not stupid.

c) The whole "OT superseded by the NT" thing in christianity is a feeble attempt to hide the fact that Christianity was invented a little under 2000 years. Saying it's based on the OT (to gain authority and make it sound older) but nothing like the OT so that you can make up your rules is quite transparent.

It worked though. Which is why Muhammad did something similar to create Islam and then much later still Joseph Smith did it again to create mormonism.

Hettie 'New Scientist' used 'The Sins of the Fathers, as part of the title in an article on the subject.

Have to be otherwise you get pseudo science

Er, no you don't!

The first time I went to visit my mums grave after we buried her there was a little white feather on the mound of earth behind the grave.

I'm not saying any of it is true but I found a lot of comfort in the feather.

Just after she passed I found tons in my house but I'd been very restless at night (her death was incredibly traumatic) so I think they just filtered out from my pillows and spread around the house. But since burying her there's not been any in the rest of the house, just the bedroom.

Make of it what you will, that's just what happened to me. Doesn't mean I'm right, doesn't mean anyone else is wrong. It's all subjective really.

Back And you say you have no beliefs!

Sublime I get the bit about the repeatable pattern. But are you claiming that scientists say that if a thing repeats say 10 times it can never be different? Because I'm not aware that they have said that.

Yes - like I said.....a shaky analogy. I can probably come up with quite a few from virtually every book of fiction I've ever read.

"The sins of the fathers...." does what? Proves the Bible writers understood epigenetics?!

sublimelime you said "And you say you have no beliefs!", but I can't reply unless you give me a hint of what you are referring to. You may be mistaking knowledge for belief.

Hettie No you have to go deeper. However, Epigenetics shows we are not the victims of our inherited genes, supports Free Will, as does Redemption through Christ.

Back But how much of your 'knowledge' is actually belief? (If you say none you are very arrogant.)

Back Scientists do not say that (re repeatability) pseudo scientists often do, as does popular science. How may times do we here 'Research proves...'

The last thing "Redemption through Christ" supports is free will.

Sorry, the Bible says nothing about genetics, let alone epigenetics. Of course it doesn't. Such things had not been discovered.

I've no doubt, if you screw up your eyes, look sideways & approach the Bible from the point of view of your "faith", you can find vaguely analogous passages. But that's all.

Not much, is it?

But how much of your 'knowledge' is actually belief?

in my case - all of it.

Hettie Redemption through Christ does support Free Will as you are no longer a slave to sin or the victim of your genetics.

in my case - all of it.

Good answer