To find this disturbing for a number of reasons....

[Tinlegs]

Photograph, posted on Facebook (and, therefore, in my eyes, endorsed) by a teacher of a group of people dressed up for Halloween. One person, "blacked up" (face mask, brownish make up on neck etc) one person "whitened up" (face mask, White make up) and a third person, also made up but in a brown colour. "Black man" wearing track suit, trainers and lots and lots of jewellery. "White woman" in curlers, Primark hoodie, track suit bottoms, heels. "Brown person" (an adult) in a child's buggy with a bottle, dummy and carrying what looks like a lunch box.

AIBU to think that this is racist and stereotyping of the worst kind. That they are dressed as a mixed race "chav" (not a word I would use but...) low income family who bottle feeds their baby, dresses badly and pushes a very old child around, who are all overweight etc.

Now I know these people. The area we live in is NOT at all multi cultural so there is unlikely to have been anyone offended at the party. But I am offended.

FWIW at least one of these people works with children on a daily basis.

Mumsnet, over to you.

Joseph and his Gloriously Multi-Coloured Dream Friends.

Some posters might enjoy this little piece in the Huff.

garlic so you are offended by the eyeliner making the eyes look slanted. Well Japanese people do have eyes which slant. And if someone is dressing up as a Japanese person then surely to make the whole outfit authentic the eyes should fit with that. How is changing the shape of the eyes to make them look japanese offensive. You really need to lighten up.

garlic yes I realise that, I was saying there was a mixture depending on the character - sorry of that was unclear. (reading back I see it was, I apologise.)

Mylovely FWIW I can see where you are coming from on many of your points. I can also see (putting in my 'extreame views on the issue' hat on instead of my current 'sitting on the fence for purposes of debate' hat on) where some of the flamers against you have got their ideas from. I personally don't think you are a racist and that your posts have suffered from what I mentioned in my last post about it being difficult to get true meaning across in a text conversation due to not being able to put tone of voice, emphasis or inflection in (or at least not without it being OTT and risking making it worse.)
Who knows, As I've said I can totally see both sides POV's and am simply trying to provoke debate to get at peoples' real reasons for their views. I'm often discriminated against, not because of my race, but because of other factors in my life. I don't get offended by dumb blonde jokes even though I am one. (trust me I am blonde and very dumb in many respects.)

That's a good article garlic.

"Jimmy, I don't think you need to paint your face black to be Lebron James. I think a Miami Heat jersey that says "James" on the back may suffice."

drama thank you for your input. Yes it can be difficult getting your point across when sitting behind a keyboard. When discussions get heated things are harder to get across and sometimes rage takes over and it comes not quite how you want it too. I have the dumb blonde jokes (also being blond), also when i worked in the city I was constantly slated for my Essex accent. I was never offended by this and took in on the chin. I think you have made some very valid and intelligent comments on here and I think we all appreciate your sensible input.

Garlic I have just spoken to my husband about this as well, we have both been at numerous fancy dress things over the years and we cannot think of a single occasion where a non-white person of any race has whited up (it had never registered with me before tonight). I wonder if it is because it is "easier" to go darker with make-up than lighter? I don't know.

With respect to actors 'whiting up', quick examples are Eddie Murphy as Jewish barber in "Coming to America" and the film "White Chicks" - haven't seen the latter film and not seen the Eddie Murphy one for ages but that was just a quick google.

Good article garlic

monicalewinski your post made perfect sense.
The examples I give of my own 'makeup' experiences have been from very high standard amateur companies and shows like 'Mikado' are often put on by amateurs. The original is taking the piss out of British people but with Japanese characters - its hard to explain. I've seen it done with many different types of costume and makeup, and by people of all different races and backgrounds.

My pro theatre example was mostly on 'Othello' - it does seem it is still acceptable to have all male 'authentic' productions, but my point is they can't be 'authentic' without a 'blacked up' actor. While in a general context and for general productions of this play I totally agree that actors of the correct skin colour should be used if at all possible (which it should be,) what about those 'authentic' productions, should they be allowed a blacked up actor for the sake of authenticity? I'm not saying it would be right or wrong but it could be used effectively as a catalyst for discussion about why such things were acceptable and needed back when the play was originally written.

if someone is dressing up as a Japanese person then surely to make the whole outfit authentic the eyes should fit - A Japanese person's eyes are not part of their costume or their folklore. The costume is the clothes.

If you were actually trying to pass as Japanese, to commit fraud or something, you'd do something about your eyes and probably other features, such as your nose. But you're not talking about authenticity, are you? You're treating the eye shape as part of the costume. It is actually quite rude to Japanese people on the whole: you're picking out the 'slanted eyes' as a caricature. Even the Duke of Edinburgh had to apologise for that one.

I was never offended by this and took in on the chin

Here we go again. What would have happened to any of your colleagues who found stereotyping unacceptable and wanted to challenge it?

Good article Garlic.

On that note, Drama, when your company made the 'slanted eyes' for your production, did the blue and green eyed members wear brown contact lenses? Did any bony-nosed members have the bridges of their noses cleverly hidden?

Or were you caricaturing the face, using the hoary old 'slant-eyed' trope?

(Just to note, I'm aware that Japanese people have bony noses, too ... but not in the caricature Japanese face, they don't.)

mylovely, you have told me I called someone a racist, I dont recall it but will stand corrected and you have accused someone of calling you the c word. Is the truth something you are unfamliar with? Are you afraid of the truth? You sound so unhinged.

Only reply if you can differentiate between fact and fiction.

Ali G is a good example actually Garlic (your post further up); he has never (as far as I can recall) changed his skin tone, and yet has played many different racial types effectively purely with accessories. (Disclaimer, I am not saying that the racial stereoptypes he plays are reflective of the race, just that he has been convincing in appearance without changing skin tone at all).

Also I admit to not having noticed any black people 'whiting up' for fancy dress. Then again I doubt I would have taken but scant notice if they had tbh.
To add to what monica said above I think it is easier for a white person to 'black up' than vice-versa only because when one of my friends in my AmDram went on holiday and got a dark tan she had to apply loads and loads of makeup of a lighter shade than the rest of us to her face for playing ill characters in a show yet in another show I had to put on some fake tan as I needed to look like I'd been out in the sun a lot and only needed a tiny bit. Not a representative sample I realise and also, I don't think the reason why we don't see it, just saying.

This is very offensive behaviour if I was to go
To a fancy dress as marilyn Monroe I would not feel
The need to white up my face to make my outfit more offical
skin colour should not be a factor that enters peoples mind.

Sorry about layout on phone and it is being weird.

ilove anyone who has ever worked in an aggressive fast moving city environment would know that you deal with it with some bulls yourself first. In my company there was no time for such politeness as 'excuse me please' or 'do you mind'. It was the type of environment that was no such place for people who get offended at the drop of a hat. It taught me a lot actually. To be strong, and stand up for yourself. I had the piss ripped out of me daily because of my essex accent. I gave it back as well. No one I worked with challenged anything. Didnt have to. Our boss was known to everyone and himself 'the plate smasher'. He was Greek. We all had nick names Some which would be considered offensive but no one was offended. Depends if you are a sensitive person or not.

garlic yes we did use makeup to change our fave shapes a bit to make them look a bit more stereotypically Japanese, but did not go OTT, it was subtle. The 'slants' just made our eyes a bit more slanted, not totally so, and certainly didnt go as far as contact lenses. If it helps I can link to a picture of the sort of makeup we had from a picture from numerous companies who put on that show. (Not my own as don't want to 'out' myself.) We sort of looked 'English with a hint of Japanese' face wise (If that makes any sense whatever! It doesnt to me, but can't think how else to describe it.) We often use makeup to change our faves for productions though. As I said above I had to age myself by 40 years for my last production, so I tend to forget exactly what we do for each show.

ARGH bloody phone typos!!

I am going to bed now as it is LATE!! I am glad that this moved on to actual discussion, it was just ranty pack mentality earlier and no real points being made.

Some things to think about for me, I had honestly never registered that I had never seen anyone 'whited up', and the link Garlic put made me think - followed by Sunshine's post about still being an authentic Marilyn Monroe without having to 'go white'.

Mylovelyboy I've never read threads with you on before, or if I did I hadn't made a connection on this thread so I had no pre conceived notion of you. FWIW I felt sorry earlier that you were being singled out and hounded and I totally agree with you about standing up for yourself in the workplace, I have had to do similar over my career several times.

night monical im done in

So Mylovelyboy how long ago did you work with these dinosaurs?

garlic Just looked at my old Mikado pics. Seems we didn't exactly slant the eyes but elongated them a bit like this makeup (Second pic if it takes you to a google image search, I couldn't get my phone to load the origional of the pic I wanted to show) but without such a white fave for the ladies.

I agree with sunshine that it would not be necessary for her to change skin colour to go to a fancy dress as Maralyn Monroe and be convincing, but not would I personally look down on her for choosing to do so (or choosing not to do so). Same with people 'blacking up' to portray black celebrities. If I was to go to a fancy dress as a non-white celeb I would certainly add a bit of fake tan at least cos I have pasty white pale skin and, being theatrical, would want to look as authentic as possible which is why I would do so. However because I am aware of the social and historic connotations of doing this I would never chose to dress up as anything other than a white celeb. It's all or nothing for me when I go fancy dress.