To find this disturbing for a number of reasons....

[Tinlegs]

Photograph, posted on Facebook (and, therefore, in my eyes, endorsed) by a teacher of a group of people dressed up for Halloween. One person, "blacked up" (face mask, brownish make up on neck etc) one person "whitened up" (face mask, White make up) and a third person, also made up but in a brown colour. "Black man" wearing track suit, trainers and lots and lots of jewellery. "White woman" in curlers, Primark hoodie, track suit bottoms, heels. "Brown person" (an adult) in a child's buggy with a bottle, dummy and carrying what looks like a lunch box.


AIBU to think that this is racist and stereotyping of the worst kind. That they are dressed as a mixed race "chav" (not a word I would use but...) low income family who bottle feeds their baby, dresses badly and pushes a very old child around, who are all overweight etc.

Now I know these people. The area we live in is NOT at all multi cultural so there is unlikely to have been anyone offended at the party. But I am offended.

FWIW at least one of these people works with children on a daily basis.

Mumsnet, over to you.

[monicalewinski]

Good posts Birds, I am of the belief that perception is more important than intent with words.

I am white, so have never experienced racism but have been a minority throughout my career (usually being the only female or one of a few, amongst 100+ men) and as such have been the subject of some awful discrimination at times. "Split-arse", which you mentioned was a popular name choice way back at the start of my career, as was "lumpy jumper" as well the suggestion that I must be a slag and on 2 occasions that stick in my mind one person actually refused to work alongside me because I shouldn't be doing a "man's job".
I must add that this was not everyone, just a few small minded wankers, and it was not all day every day but enough to make an impression.

This was in the 90s and I'm pleased to say that things have moved on dramatically from then, but it has shaped who I am as a person and although I was never outwardly upset by some things back then I did on occasion cry in private. I would nowadays never knowingly allow someone else now to feel like I did back then and I absolutely call bullies out if I witness it, but there are still things I learn about myself every day re how other people perceive things I say even though my intent is not malicious.

My experience as a minority was only ever evident in the workplace, so I had the 'luxury' of shedding that minority tag when outside of work. I cannot begin to imagine never being able to leave it behind (as with colour) and it is the casual racism that is overlooked by many
(and to be honest, a few posts made by garlic further up made me re think some things myself).

(Apologies if the thread has moved on again but I've been trying to type and post this for ages and keep getting waylaid!).

[katese11]

How strange, this article just popped up as a link when I was looking at imdb. You might be interested, Drama

[Thymeout]

But katesi, by this logic, black actors could only play black characters. And surely the acting ability of the actor is more important than their skin colour?

The idea seems to be that blacking up is in some way making fun of the character imitated and is therefore racist. When a man dresses up as a woman, is that sexist? I'm thinking of Some Like it Hot, pantomime, etc. But it's the man who looks silly in those circumstances.

This relates to pp's brother who with a group of multiracial friends dressed up as the Jackson 5 and whether this was racist. They weren't making fun of the J5. If anything it was a tribute when they did the rounds of the karaoke bars.

Also, if it's to do with power and oppression, China is now in a position to buy and sell the US economically. At what point would dressing up as Uncle Sam be racist?

I just think this is not nearly as cut and dried as 'blackface is racist and everyone knows that'. (Paraphrasing.)

[katese11]

The vast majority of characters in films, plays etc don't have a set race, so any actor could play them e.g you could have a black romeo, it would be fine. But Othello is African -it says so in the script

[katese11]

To use another Shakespearean example, in midsummer night's dream, hermia needs to be shorter than Helena otherwise their argument doesn't work. Site toycould achieve some illusion with heels and clever positioning but wouldn't most directors just cast hermia as being shorter than Helena?

[katese11]

*garhh predictive text fail. ..

[Thymeout]

Yes, but Othello is one of the great Shakespearian roles. Should white actors be barred from playing it?

[katese11]

Well, women don't get to play it very often because they don't fit the role. Do you think that's unfair?

I'm not barring anyone from doing anything but a white actor playing othello has two options - blacking up or just ignoring the cues in the dialogue. Which option do you think is better?

[garlicbutter]

Thymeout. Unless you represent black and ethnic minority groups in some convincing manner, you simply aren't qualified to tell black people whether blacking up is to do with power & oppression. Most of us have listened to those who do represent such groups, all of whom have said it's insulting & offensive.

I give more weight to their opinions than to some white person making weak arguments to excuse behaviours which insult & offend others.

[Heartbrokenmum73]

Ugh, how is this still going?

[taffleee]

'Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery' -

Hopefully bringing this thread back down to basics, I just think 'being a racist' is absolutely in no way connected to what others might deem as 'racially offensive'??? Dressing up as a member of another racial background, if meant in a tribute or to depict that person if they happen to be a member of another 'race', if its meant in a totally inoffensive way should just be dealt with as the 'dresser up-er' intended, totally inoffensive!!

However, if a person was dressing up as another race, to cause offence being their whole intention, of course that should be dealt with, and I believe everyone who has posted on this thread would agree with that!!!

But after reading this whole thread I don't believe one person on here is a racist, quite the opposite, I believe both sides of this 'argument (if thats what you want to call it??) have given total views arguing against any form of racism -

I Just thinks the lines need to be defined in regards to what is actually 'hatred' of another race, and just what is NOT!

[taffleee]

(just as a total sideline, I wear eyeliner daily on my upper lids to give my eyes a 'slantier look!!, just because I like the look, I hope no one would see me as a 'racist' for doing so!!!!) x

[taffleee]

(sorry to go on, but I actually get 'fake tans' on a regular basis, because I want my skin to be darker??)

I believe someone (not wanting to mention any names), believed 'white people' didn't change their skin colour to try and be 'darker'??

Well, my 'salon' is always fully booked with people wanting to be 'less white' - I seriously don't think their being racist either - x

[taffleee]

(sorry, forgot to say unless it was 'racially ill-intended')

[cjel]

HEARTBROKEN - I just noticed this as well. Hello I can't believe they are still at it either

[Thants]

The thing is you say it's ok if it's not meant in an offensive way. I disagree, if you choose to be ignorant about race and the history of racism because it doesn't affect you then that can be as just toxic as deliberate racism.

[usualsuspect]

Cn I just say I love Birds posts on this thread.And agree with everything she has posted.

[Ubik1]

Op
It's not for you to police this teacher's social life, however ridiculous they are being.

[taffleee]

thants there is no 'ignorance' or there is certainly no undisputed awareness into the total racism experienced in the past by minorities!!

But I really hope the majority would agree that on the whole this is so in the past, and really people just need to concentrate on kicking out the hatred, not the 'but if you, and couldn't we not's, and wouldn't it be better if we just's.....) Just the hate stuff - and that goes for everyone - x

[Tenacity]

Fridgepants that's shocking.

[Thants]

As I explained early in this thread. Racism is cumulative. Blacking up is one of the things that creates a racist culture where hatred can thrive.

[ThePinkOcelot]

Get a grip! Personally I am fed up of all this racist crap!

[taffleee]

Thepink fair enough, why?

[nooka]

Taflee you do know that the definition of racism doesn't generally include the word 'hate' don't you?

Definition from the
oxford dictionary: the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

in that context 'blacking up' most certainly counts as racist. I wonder if you are really thinking of xenophobia, the unreasonable fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers. Of course many racists are also xenophobic.

You aren't really serious in imagining that racism is 'all in the past' are you?