To be utterly clueless as to how to handle dd8- talk me through how you would

[Retropear]

Dd8 can be difficult at home.She can be nasty and unreasonable to her brothers 10,rude and intolerant to all of us.She is also incredibly lazy and has a temper.She can be lovely,has a lovely qwerky personality and is amazingly kind and gentle with animals.

She is extremely unmaterialistic,not into sweets or gadgets.I obviously don't smack.She answers back to the death lately with eye rolling and hand flourishes. As a result little things generally turn into a big deal as I struggle to find ways to punish her that actually bother her.

Soooooo this morning after a hair brushing upset(I was apparently not being gentle enough,IMO I was and firmly told her so) which made us late she then threw her brothers book down the side of her bed as he was first at the sink for teeth brushing wtaf!Just why?

It took several repeat apologies to get one in the correct tone and then a load of belligerence. I then took her teddy off her so she could experience what it felt like.She screamed bloody murder and I ended up screaming back.She ended up losing a possible hot chocolate out for possible hard work and a sleepover because she doesn't give a shiny shit about her behaviour or the consequences.

I should have all the answers but I just don't.Twin boys were a doddle compared to this.Why the nastiness and time wasted on arguing,answering back etc?I have explained over and over that she makes little things 10 x worse.I have also explained that I won't let rudeness or spiteful acts go- she will be punished.

So talk me through it,where am I going wrong?How would you deal with her?

PS. Did you work this method out using a book, sparkly? I think it would really work with my dd. She hates being told what to do! (And she is 5. Bring on 8!)

I've read loads tbh including this but it was ages ago and I've forgotten most of it but the one thing that always sticks in my mind and is in most good parenting books is "validation". Validate their feelings, don't try to minimise them. Don't say "oh you poor thing, yes it's so awful and unfair". Say "oh that must make you feel sad/rubbish/awful, come and give me a hug". If you're rushing then "lets have a big chat about this later", if you're not then "ok what can we do to make you not feel so sad about this?". Sometimes if they're getting all puffed up about something I will ask them a detailed question about things they really like, like its just occurred to me, something silly like "hey dd how do you think Jessie keeps her hat on when shes riding Bullseye in Toy Story? and then just keep asking questions like that. That normally distracts dd.

8 is a fab age really.

But it is easy to forget that they are really only little, at 8, especially if they have older sibs.

my 8 yr old needs loooooads of love and reassurance, it can be quite a cuddly age too.

You need 'How to talk so kids listen and how to listen so kids talk '
If she says the hair brush is hurting perhaps it actually is. I listened to dh tell dd last night that her bath wasn't too hot while she repeatedly said it was and despaired. I also think getting into tit for tat taking her teddy bear is pointless and will only lead to more conflict.
The book is brilliant, it suggests lots of ways of resolving arguments and difficult situations with kids without resorting to shouting or sarcasm. Made a massive difference to the way I deal with my kids and as a result we are a virtually shout free household.

Btw if she is your eldest dd then she is dd1 not dd8 (which means she is your 8th daughter!). My dd1 is also 8. Similar issues. Useful thread- thanks!

Some great advice on here. How to talk so kids will listen and how to listen so kids will talk.... is brilliant and for free advice there is a wonderful website called Ahaparenting.com. Explains why only natural consequences are best, how to set limits with empathy and how to maintain the relationship between you while teaching appropriate behaviour. My dd is only 5 but I would be lost without that website!

I don't think doing punishments is always wrong but I do think it is dangerous to keep on and on until you get the right tone of contrition.

Often children will sound defiant because they actually care and get upset at the thought of being in the wrong. The ones you want to watch out for imho are the ones who apologise very sweetly- and then do the same thing again once your back is turned. If they have the emotional energy to work out exactly what kind of tone and expression you would like to see, it could just be that they are not working very hard on their own sense of wrong-doing...

Ds used to become very defensive. It felt like I was losing control, but in actual fact it was a measure of how much influence I actually had over him: when he had offended against my values he genuinely did feel at odds with the whole world. Some impact there....

Lately, as he has matured, he has worked out for himself that if being in trouble hurts him so much, the best way forward is to stay out of trouble and negotiate.

There is a school of thought that with siblings (with the exception of physical danger), it is not the parent's job to work out who is guilty or innocent but to demand of the group as a whole that they behave in a civilised manner towards each other.
This means a natural consequence for all regardless of who was misbehaving - I suppose it only really applies in '6 of one, half a dozen of the other' situations where both/all are involved to some extent - it seems unfair but worked for mine.
I agree with the others though that your daughter likely feels that the twins are your favourite and that she is playing up to try to get your attention in a positive way. Please do not use the 'punish' word straight out of USA TV teen shows when speaking to her.
It is a father's role to build his daughter's self-esteem - so don't interfere with this process. Jointly pick your battles and let harmony reign more often.