To still feel disturbed about this nursery.

[MrsDrRanj]

This has been bugging me on and off for years, one of those things where I feel like I should 'do' something because it just doesn't settle in my mind well.

5 years ago, when I was 17, I got an apprenticeship at a nursery through a training course. I'd never had a job, hadn't finished school and was recovering from a breakdown so it was a big deal to me. I was naive and very nervous.

Things happened while I was there that now really bother me, especially as a parent who may have to find a nursery for ds one day.

There was an incident with 2 other apprentices having a shouting match infront of pre school children, including calling eachother 'slags' etc. they were not fired and parents were not informed.

The manager came into the room I worked in and loudly discussed the children's progress infront of them, including declaring that a little boys speech wasn't as it should be and she had suspicions he was colour blind (right infront of the little boy who was 3)

One man punished a preschool boy who suffered with constipation for having an accident by forcing him into a nappy that was too small for him. The boy was screaming and in the end there was poo everywhere including the little boys hair. Another member of staff came and shouted at him but nothing else was done. (I have recently read in the news that this man has now been convicted with voyeurism and possessing indecent images of children which made me go cold)

When I was invited on a work dinner out the leader of the preschool room spent a lot of the night doing impersonations of the children, including taking the piss out of a little girl for not understanding much when English was not her first language.

In general the nursery was badly managed, people were bitchy and mean, apprentices were left in charge when they shouldn't have been etc and thankfully I didn't stay there long. But it still bothers me. The nursery is still running and though there's a chance the staff may have moved on there could also be the same people working there.

The nursery had been rated 'outstanding' by ofsted and was part of a high end chain of nurseries. It has left me terrified of putting DS in nursery as id be devastated if any of the above situations involved my child. I feel awful for not doing anything at the time but I was so inexperienced.

Would you do something now? And if so what? I don't want it to bug me forever I just can't seem to shake it from my mind.

I visited one today - the manager was amazing, and on my wavelength. The outdoor play area was lovely. However it was huge - with lots of different rooms for each age group - the care seemed to depend on which room you end up in.

I'm telling myself to see it as a "creche" for 2 days a week. I wouldn't want my child there every day. The room she might end up in was staffed by what looked like 2-4 teenagers (although the leader had been there 8 years). The room next door had a granny-type lady in, a lot more children so it was busier, but they were sat in a circle singing and looked a lot better. However the granny-room was nearly at capacity and the other room only had about 8 kids.

Its so hard. I will need almost immediate childcare if I get the job. They can offer it. I trust the manager will deal with any queries, the facilities are nice... my nearly 2 year old can at least vocalize upset... they are very flexible about settling in... and you can pick up at any time you want, so you'd get to see it at various times.

But it is very young non-mums in the rooms we'll probably use.
Its worlds away from the lovely not-for-profit pre-school we used with the older one.

Why is it more difficult for a 16 year old to report something than an old employee?

Because at 16 you are just out of school and quite probably still in the mindset of thinking no one will take you seriously because you're a child. You may still be treated as such even in a professional setting.

Because at 16 your experience of dealing with people in authority may be one of feeling that you are powerless and won't be listened to.

You may not know where to start with regard finding out who exactly your concerns should be reported to.

As I said, things were very different back then, there was no googling to find out who you should approach, or sites like MN that help people with similar concerns. How many threads have you seen on here where people post about concerns and get great advice as to what they should do?

There was nothing like that back in the 90s/80s.

That is just a few ideas off the top of my head.

Some 16 year olds will feel able to report, some won't - a lot of it depends on how clear their training provider is about how they can do so and how confident they are. I totally agree that safeguarding is a major part of an early years practitioner's work so everyone working in the sector should be up to doing it but 16/17 year olds are trainees and are legally children themselves, I don't think they should count in ratios personally speaking.

I will add that safeguarding was NOT a part of my training at all.

If 16/17 year olds are fresh out of school and still in the mindset of a child to the point of not being able to do the job properly with regard to safeguarding, then, like I said above, 16/17 year olds shouldn't be working in childcare.

You're going to ignore the rest of what I said then?

can I just say there are a lot of good nurseries out there
I work in a fantastic one, where the needs of the children always come first
as for the op, I really don't think there is anything you can do about the experiences you had at the nursery 5 years ago
ofsted are not going to be interested, the entire staff team could have changed in that time
move on

When I was working in nurseries, OFSTED didn't exist. I guess any complaints would have gone to social services. And not sure they would have taken notice of anything except the most serious complaints.

Hi, OP back

I done some research on the nursery and discovered they haven't had an ofsted report since I was there, but the manager has changed.

I've sent a letter to ofsted anyway, just incase.

Regarding the age issue, 16/17 year olds aren't meant to work in nurseries - I was training. I felt unable to do anything at the time because 1. I had no previous experience of childcare settings and didn't realise how wrong it was and 2. My confidence was very very low. I also wasn't given information about safe guarding and who to report to by my training provider.

16 and 17 year olds can work in nurseries
staff under 17 need to be supervised and can't be included in the ratios but they can certainly work in nurseries
and indeed many do, on about £100 a week, as apprentices

even if children had spent most of the day crying parents were always told that their children settled a few minutes after them leaving.

I think some posters are missing the point about reporting. lots of us have said that we did report to owners and instead but we weren't listened too!

I really do believe that all nurseries should have cctv.

I work in a nursery and feel very insulted that people think I need to have my every working moment monitored by cctv.
What happened to trust?
Do you have your every move filmed at work?

CCTV is not practical. You would need them everywhere. But no parent is going to want CCTV in the toilets the children use or changing rooms to change nappies or do potty training. There are too many minefields.

Webcams are used in lots of nurseries and allow parents to log in to see their children during the day, e.g. this nursery.

Clearly they don't show toilets and changing areas for CP reasons but children only spend a tiny bit of the day in there so it wouldn't prevent a parent getting an idea of how settled their child is or seeing the body language of the practitioners.

I'm in two minds about whether they are a good idea but that's probably because I've never worked with or used them.

Did you mean the part about not being trained? Does it take training to recognise inappropriate behaviour and to look into how to report it and to who?

'I work in a nursery and feel very insulted that people think I need to have my every working moment monitored by cctv.
What happened to trust?
Do you have your every move filmed at work?'

I imagine that there are some FANTASTIC nurseries out there. However it seems that a great many are inadequate, and the point is really that little children and babies cannot relay to us what goes on in our absence.

Therefore we are taking a huge risk any time we leave them in the care of someone who is not us.

I think that needs to be taken into account in the context of talk about CCTV etc.

I don't see why anyone should be insulted by CCTV in nurseries. If you have nothing to hide, it shouldn't be a worry and clearly some nursery setting seem to be rife with bad practice. We can't rely on the staff to tell us the truth or ofsted or other body to follow up any issues so CCTV seems to be a valid option in my opinion. Why not?

I wouldn't give a shiny shite how I the great best care worker felt if CCT was introduced!

The bottom line is the children and vulnerable people not the bloody workers, EGO.

Amber spot on.

Some woeful ignorance of human nature here or a lack of empathy.

gold

Fantastic idea and shows it can be done.

All these worlds are a dark world with a veil drawn across it.

We have seen time and time and time again hideous atrocities being committed against vulnerable people.

When do we stop trusting people and start protecting are vulnerable by whatever means necessary?

I work in a nursery. I am 25, started when I was 20. Does that mean I dont know what I am doing and dont care about the babies I work with? We all have to start somewhere, why on earth does it mean that because nursery workers are young this equates to bad/negligent work practice? I am actually offended by this.

I also worked hard to obtain my level 2 and 3 childcare qualifications. But having these qualifications doesnt mean much? Wow, well, theres 2 years of my time, money and efforts down the drain.

Interesting thread.

I wanted to post about my experience of nursery because I think it is an interesting different model. Dd went to a cooperative parent run nursery from 16m to 2 yr. There were 7 children in a session aged 16m - 3y, with one nursery worker & a parent - there was a rota. Parents managed & ran the nursery. Because you were there every 7th session you really got to feel comfortable with the setting & a sense of community with the other families.

Obviously everyone involved had flexible schedules that allowed them to do this but it really was great. I wish there were more options like it.

Arabella that sounds so lovely. I couldn't nec do that with wokr but it sounds really lovely.

Arabella, a friend of mine is doing this. They hired a preschool teacher and have two parents stay (ten kids total). The mothers in question are either SAHM, small business owners or freelance, so it works for them.

I really hope this thread gains some momentum, as too frequently this discussion dissolves into a SAHM vs WOHM bunfight.

Move - I don't think being young in and of itself is a problem. I think what makes a difference (from visiting lots of pre-schools) is the ethos. A setting with just leaders in their teens/early twenties is very very very different to a setting with a mix of older, experienced workers alongside younger workers.

I wouldn't discount someone because they were young - but I think its best to have a balance. There's lots of professions where this is the case. Would you want a GP practice where all the GPs are newly qualified? THey'd all be qualified but having more experienced GPs around means there's help to draw on, etc.

As a teacher I've valued the experience of older teachers. I was a good teacher in my 20s, but I've learnt a lot from older staff.

Some settings see younger workers as more malliable and cheaper sadly.