To wonder why people who appear to dislike religion enjoy Christian celebrations

[Cupcake1985]

I know that most people enjoy Christmas, Easter etc with no regard for the actual Christian basis and meaning of the celebration, but aibu to think that those people should then not get all offended by the religious aspects and sometimes be downright rude about it?? The nativity play, spreading the word of god through carol singing etc..... Dare I mention operation Christmas child?! If you enjoy Christmas then at least try to accept it is actually about the birth of Christ or at least respect that others will celebrate this fact and may try to share that with those around them with the best intentions.

Basically cheer up, be accepting, be kind.

And I think that if Jesus really existed & was anything like the portrayal of him in the NT, he'd be pretty shocked by that attitude too, Manic.

manic you've completely lost me. Are you suggesting that unless you are told someone doesn't want to be included in your god's eternity I'm fair game?
Please don't ever say " you're in my prayers, or you'll pray for me"

Sirzy - I am an atheist. I don't mind what anyone else believes, and I don't mind them telling other people what they believe and trying to get others to join them, as long as they do it considerately, openly and will take no for an answer.

What I do object to is people who try to use their religion to affect other people's lives, eg campaigning to ban same-sex marriage or contraception for everyone, not just for those who share their beliefs.

As far as I can see, it is people like Franklin Graham (head of Samaritan's Purse/Operation Christmas Child, and campaigner against same-sex marriage, Obama's health-care initiatives, the provision of condoms to prevent HIV in Africa etc etc) who are the judgemental ones.

You see OP, I believe religion is a bad thing for humanity, so I actually quite strongly object to spreading the word of god through carol singing etc. Although I try to never express my objections to delusional religious believers as they get quite upset about it.
Whoops! I guess I'm doing that right now.
Oh well. Now that I've started...

I do not respect any persons religious beliefs but I will tolerate them although sometimes it is hard to do ( my tolerance has limits). Some religious people get dangerously upset if I voice my opinions, as though their omnipotent sky fairy will cry if I hurt it's feelings.
I wish they would respect my opinions sometimes, which at least have evidence to back them up.
And I get really annoyed when christians tell me that I am celebrating my midwinter festival in the wrong way. I used to laugh about it but feel things are going to far now.

I also am sick of being told to feel respect for other peoples religious beliefs. Why? It's like thought crime.
There beliefs are riduculous.
I don't respect the racist, sexist beliefs that some people have. Why should I? Why should I even tolerate them? I wouldn't tolerate or respect the beliefs of a modern day Nazi Party, so I defintely will not respect the disgusting philosophy and ideology of the major religions.
At the moment I am able to put up with (tolerate) it, but only because you make me laugh with your silly little beliefs in pixies in the sky who watch my every movement and thought.
But don't push me. Please.

Sorry, rant over.

I am an atheist but love Christmas. For me it's a tradition, obviously it's based on faith but it's not that way for me although I love a good nativity etc I love Christmas carols. It's just all based on a story as far as I am concerned.

More important from an eternal perspective yes. Life one earth is short. I think Jesus not agrees with that but teaches it 'I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except through me' and 'Go forth and teach all nations ... I have commanded you.' I'm not saying don't help people practically where it's needed, of course people should do that, both out of human decency and because it's another thing Jesus tells Christians to do. And they do. And the majority of people who need the practical help probably won't want anything else. But it doesn't hurt to offer what someone feels is the most valuable thing they have to offer.

Caitlin - I'm suggesting that if a Christian is told that a person they are telling about God doesn't want to be included in God's eternity then that Christian should stop pushing it.

and let's face it, even Christians don't agree among themselves re beliefs

Or the date of Xmas day. A good number of people celebrated Xmas 2013 last January.

Actually, I have to admit I am judgemental about some religious people. I have no respect whatsoever for people whose religious views cause the death of not one but two of their children, four years apart: US faith healers charged over second death

(I would be equally judgemental if they were not Christians but homeopaths etc)

redshift what should be respected is the right to hold a religious belief, same as the right to be a member of a political party. As long as you're not forcing any one else to share your views and your beliefs are not incompatible with the fact , certainly in Europe, we live in secular democracies. And I happen to believe secular democracies are the way to go.

The belief itself should not be above criticism . Personally I find the SNP's campaign for an independent Scotland and the Catholic church's views on contraception and homosexuality are equally bonkers and equally fair game.

I have lived in Islamic countries for the last 12 years. I love Eid and Ramadan but I am not a Muslim. Should I be made to work over those public holidays even though I don't have to? When I worked offshore I did used to swap Eid and Christmas with my colleagues.

exexpat:

Not one person involved thinks they did anything wrong.

But it doesn't hurt to offer what someone feels is the most valuable thing they have to offer

But that's not what you said. You said "knowing Jesus" was more important than practical help. And that attitude does hurt. It's this kind of thinking that can eventually lead to people being prayed over rather than given medication. (Not accusing you of that, btw, but it does happen).

But, like I said - if someone goes out there wanting to get stuck in and help, and along the way talks about their beliefs, OK.

But to get on the plane thinking "I know just what those guys need.....an introduction to Jesus". Sorry but no.

I don't have any strong beliefs either way. The fairy story post is really nasty. I don't care if atheists are the clever people but that hit gives Dawkins a bad name.

hettie - did I? If I did that's not how I meant it. Maybe you're taking it out of context, maybe I expressed it badly. I can't find it anyway so I'm not sure how it cam across.

MrsDeVere - you're not a Christian any more because you don't agree with the Anglican church? Have they actually taken away your belief in God? I don't think you have to agree with all churches, or even go to any church, to be a Christian.

Oh, it hurts me. If someone offers to pray for me or whatever. They think, I guess, that I could only be neutral about it, so if I am not interested, no harm done.

Actually, every person who is prepared to believe in god is a slap in the face to me, because of our family history which involves a good deal of suffering of the innocent. Evangelising is telling me that a system where god permits this is just fine.

Don't imagine for one second that those of us who hate to be evangelised are just arrogant. Some of us feel that you can only believe this stuff by ignoring the fate of our loved ones. And we are not impressed.

Manic

You said:

Yes, many people in the third world need all the practical things you mention but, in a Christian's eyes, they need to know about Jesus more because, to us, this life only represents a small part of eternity

I don't think I took you out of context at all - but if you didn't mean it like that, then fair enough.

And that attitude does hurt. It's this kind of thinking that can eventually lead to people being prayed over rather than given medication. (Not accusing you of that, btw, but it does happen).

Totally agree.

I've posted many times about Mother Theresa. In her Nobel acceptance speech she talks about teaching lepers about 'natural contraception' and taking them the word of God.

Leprosy these days is curable, and medication is free via the WHO.

At my most charitable I consider her misguided. Who would leave another human being with a horrible disease when they knew it could be cured? Why would you expose their family to contracting that disease?

I know there are people who do good things and they will say it is because they are Christian, such as the food banks. But I actually believe these people would be doing good things whatever religion they have or no religion.

Food banks may appear in churches but Mosques, Gurdawaras and temples all give meals.

It's a real shame when someone who would do good things is prevented from or has their good deeds tainted because of religion.

Look at all the OCC / Samaritan's purse freds. People of all faiths and none have no objection to presents being given out, but most object to the literature and the forced message that goes with it.

Is there actually a choice about celebrating Christmas in the UK regardless of religious affiliation?

• 2 public holidays devoted to it.
• Many businesses close down completely over the period
• From October onwards the cultural and commercial bombardment of Christmas begins and it's inescapable

Also it makes me laugh that a Christian is COMPLAINING about atheists celebrating Christmas - they are the exact same people who get their bosoms hoiked when someone suggests when the festive period might be called Holidays or Winterval - to be more inclusive.

Anyway, despite the above, I love Christmas/Yule/Saturnalia/Winterval - it makes me feel connected to my Pagan ancestors thousands of years ago on this tiny island, gathering together what little they could to keep warm, light the dark and hold their families close to them while they attempted to survive the long, dark journey through winter. The mistletoe, the decorated logs, holly, ivy, berries, the 'feast' of turkey - I love that such simple things still are part of our celebrations. And the way it marks a year's end and a new year beginning, the cyclical nature of life and the seasons.... (stops there before becoming a total hippy cliche)

I'm of a CofE-influenced pagan tendency.

Since Christians overlaid their stuff

OP, we live in a mostly secular society, and people interpret holidays in their own way. For me, the real meaning of Christmas is the very human need for warmth, light, good food and company at the darkest and coldest time of the year. As others have said, this is the original meaning of the festival celebrated at midwinter. I'm not offended by anyone choosing to go to church or any other place of worship, each to their own so long as they don't ask me to do the same. I am troubled by supposedly secular schools peddling the view that Christianity and specifically the Nativity story is a universally-accepted truth through compulsory carol-singing where those carols require the singer to profess Christian faith - and I would be similarly troubled by schools requiring children to profess a belief in any other faith. Supporting OCC is another question altogether. I think it's insulting to equate Christianity with the support of a 'charity' that is Islamaphobic and homophobic, and most Christians of my acquaintance would be very quick to disassociate themselves from this outfit and its aims. As a non-Christian I respect that others will see Christmas as first and foremost Christian and celebrate it as such, but I don't respect the actions of anyone who makes an informed decision to support OCC or similar.

Sorry, finger slipped.

Since Christians overlaid their stuff on older traditions, I don't feel too bad using the word Christmas where I might otherwise use Yule. Nor does it bother me to retain a fondness for the Nativity story, as a story, because it has become part of Western culture and tradition.

Who would leave another human being with a horrible disease when they knew it could be cured?

Something who might say, "I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people." perhaps?

Yes - the truth about how Mother Theresa "cared" for people is incredibly shocking.

Well said, sashh.

I love Christmas, not bothered about Easter. I still think the whoe Christ/Jesus/god thing s a made up load of rubbish.