To wonder why people who appear to dislike religion enjoy Christian celebrations

[Cupcake1985]

I know that most people enjoy Christmas, Easter etc with no regard for the actual Christian basis and meaning of the celebration, but aibu to think that those people should then not get all offended by the religious aspects and sometimes be downright rude about it?? The nativity play, spreading the word of god through carol singing etc..... Dare I mention operation Christmas child?! If you enjoy Christmas then at least try to accept it is actually about the birth of Christ or at least respect that others will celebrate this fact and may try to share that with those around them with the best intentions.

Basically cheer up, be accepting, be kind.

I had an appraisal today (manager in ME) with a completely covered female employee and we discussed her goals for the next meeting. she asked " can we wait till after Christmas because my family are coming" and I said fine. I didn't mention Christianity, she did, as a kind of marker. If she hadn't been so behind, she may have asked to wait until after Eid.

Agree with HettiePetal, Christianity has been used as much for social control of the poor and perpetuate the cycles of poverty as it has done to alleviate their problems. I would not want to back an organization that ignored this.

madhair - Dressing up trees is mentioned specifically in the Torah and Bible (as a local pagan tradition). And gift giving has been part of Jewish holidays, traditions, and education for thousands of years, as it has been in many other older cultures. Neither of those are rooted in Christianity any more than skeletons as decorations originated in Halloween rather than their Aztec pagan roots.

Midwinter festivals are as old as humanity has marked time in these regions, in many other regions, humanity obviously has marked it's seasonal changes and important parts of the cycle different (as different regions experience different seasons). Many celebrations at this time of year are sombre or have nothing to do with seasonal changes. Humanity does not celebrate in a universal way nor 'made' to celebrate in a specific fashion.

It does amaze me how people can judge people based solely on their religion, it also amazes me that those who are so anti religion are often a lot more narrow minded than those who do have a faith.

Hettie - yes, I totally get why you would take issue with it because you are coming at it from a fundamentally different perspective. There's no way either side can agree with the other really. Yes, many people in the third world need all the practical things you mention but, in a Christian's eyes, they need to know about Jesus more because, to us, this life only represents a small part of eternity and we want everyone to spend that eternity with God. But to most atheists that will sound ridiculous and arrogant.

I don't think only Christians give to charity, I was just trying t be nice and recognise that some elements of what i do are also part of traditional Christian practice. Or Islamic practice, or Jewish practice. Whatever, I'm an atheist myself.

Evangelism- that's the problem. For a certain type of believer, you "know" you are right, so obviously there are no good reasons to hold back. To them it's like evangelising about not jumping off a cliff.

I find it specially scary when I meet people who have only had a limited education and experience of the world who have been brought up to evangelise. Whether they are all-American teens or people from poor parts of the world, it feels uncomfortably like abuse to me, when I realise how very little they actually understand about the theology behind their faith. Their understanding of the bible, for instance, can be terrifyingly superficial, with no understanding that they are dealing with a set of mistranslated documents, some of them centuries after the event, collated by people a thousand years later.

Isn't it safer for the child not to tell them Jesus even exists?

If a child dies in Africa having never heard of Jesus does he not go to heaven? Surely God wouldn't be so cruel?

Manic

You strike me as a thoughtful and well meaning person. But yes, that does sound ridiculous and arrogant.

You are entitled, if you wish, to consider your eternal life more important than this one - but please do not make that decision for other people.

God moves in pretty fuckingmysterious ways

why do strike-throughs never work for me?

Sirzy, is any one doing that? The judging is how that religion is applied

If someone claims for example their religion tells them homosexuals are evil I will judge that person just as much as someone who says, for example " proofs are perverts" just because that is the way that person thinks.
manicinsomniac I don't want to spend eternity with your god. I want a happy life here and now and to be remembered fondly for a short while. And yes it is arrogant to want to rope me in.

that they are dealing with a set of mistranslated documents

Well, you have to admire how clever stupid people can be to get around that problem.

See, for an example of the intellectual rigour we're told Christianity can exhibit, this piece of completely unhinged craziness.

I would say claiming "christians are cuts" is very much judging people based on their faith wouldn't you?

But please remember that for most Christians there is far more to christmas than than feasting, dec, present giving etc, which as pointed out are pagan in origin. To a Christian there is the advent, the preparing the crib, Christmas Day itself, the journey of the maji and finally, epiphany.

As atheists wouldnot be exposed to these events, it would be easy to assume a christain christmas maybe based purely on pagan origin.

Well thanks folks, have been feeling a little bit hipocritical about celebrating Christmas as we are non religious and don't belive in God. Now happy to celebrate as a mid winter celebration.

Like churches though and quite lime attending Christmas Eve servise just for the tradition, festive feeling, good will to all men, the carols etc and sense of occasion. Bit of a festival junkie anyway and always happy to celebrate others festivals whether it be Eid, Easte, Dewali, a nice Ramadan eveing meal, Chinese New Year, Hannukah, Purim etc. it's just fun and interesting to celebrate your friends special days.

I would say claiming "christians are cuts" is very much judging people based on their faith wouldn't you?

You've put that in quotation marks, so presumably you are quoting directly?

Please c/p the part where ANYONE on this thread said that.

Thanks.

Sorry, just re-read and the poster who put that had edited the paragraph badly and misunderstood. BUT it doesn't change my inital point that a lot of people who are anti-religion are the ones who are quickest to judge people who have faith.

Not all Christians are bad - my mum holds the firm belief that you can not be a Christian and vote Troy she see's the New Testaments message as strongly socialist

Her mate tried to become a vicar a few years back but was blocked due to be in favour of gay vicars (our vicar at the time being gay)

Some Christians are good people with good hearts trying to help

Our local food bank are brilliant and they are church run

Tory even !

It's quite possible, Sirzy to judge the religion and the faith without laying into the person. I see no personal judgement on this thread at all.

Hettie, I don't think it's about wanting to make that decision for other people, it's about finding out if they want to make that decision too. If they don't then, fair play, I wouldn't then support aggressive harassment or anything.

Caitlin, that's fine but people can't know how you feel unless you are asked or tell them.

Sirzy that is not what Hermione said. NTH, I'd never use that expression for anyone. What she meant was there are people with loathsome views she despises. See my example.

I live in Edinburgh where the utterly wonderful Bishop Richard Holloway was the bishop of the Episcopalian diocese . I'm confident whilst Richard Holloway would never use that language he'd be equally as opposed to the likes of OCC and SP.

As for non Christians not celebrating Christmas, what do you suggest we do? Should it stop being a public holiday? Do we ignore it?

It is interesting that, before the thread veered back to its sub agenda of Operation Christmas Child, the OP skulked off, and hasn't been seen again, after so many people pointed out that Christmas and the other popularly celebrated "Christian" festivals aren't originally Christian at all, but pre-existing festivals adopted by the church. Not to mention the post that pointed out that the nativity has only the sketchiest Christian routes, and its all really just a response to the human need to break up the year, bring some cheer to winter, and mark the changing seasons - all of which existed before Christianity did and will continue to do so should Christianity lose its dominance and be replaced by something else, in the parts of the world where it currently remains the respectable choice for those religiously inclined...

But Manic, you said that you considered them knowing Jesus "more important" than the things I mentioned, like clean water & mosquito nets. More important!

So, really, you're less concerned with their earthly sufferings than you are with their immortal soul.

I honestly don't know how you can justify that to yourself without feeling ashamed. Sorry, but really.

Think it depends how people practice their faith. IMO there can be a big difference on how we practice and view Christianity in the UK compared to how many practice it say in the US. TBh, the way Christianity Is often pushed and practised in the US disturbs and makes me very uneasy. Even many politicians there seem to push religion as a big part of their election campaign. They are running with god's backing etc. it is really strange to me.

I went to see a school run by American missionaries/evangelists. They showed me their mission statement and all the comments from the children all about what God meant to them. When I asked about how other religions were taught about, I was told that no other religions were taught of in the school but the mums had a shed where they got together for prayer meetings and blanket making. Sadly it wasn't for us but was a very strange experience.