To wonder why people who appear to dislike religion enjoy Christian celebrations

[Cupcake1985]

I know that most people enjoy Christmas, Easter etc with no regard for the actual Christian basis and meaning of the celebration, but aibu to think that those people should then not get all offended by the religious aspects and sometimes be downright rude about it?? The nativity play, spreading the word of god through carol singing etc..... Dare I mention operation Christmas child?! If you enjoy Christmas then at least try to accept it is actually about the birth of Christ or at least respect that others will celebrate this fact and may try to share that with those around them with the best intentions.

Basically cheer up, be accepting, be kind.

When I was the only thing that irked me [relevant to this thread] was non believers turning up at our child friendly church for Carols service and proceeding to moan all the way through that the children were spoiling it.

I'd say this was less about them being atheist and more about being arseholes. It's just their arsehole-ry (arseholehood?) manifested like that.

I like Easter and Christmas because I like chocolate and presents and indulgent food and mulled wine and family time pretty lights and time off work.
If other people want to use these holidays to celebrate the birth and death of their imaginary friend, that's fine, as long as it doesn't affect my holiday.

MrsDeVere - you said non-believers , an atheist is a non-believer, but not necessarily an anti-theist (like me ). But doesn't matter, I know what you meant, they were arseholes anyway.
Despite being an anti-theist, I do go to carol services. I guess I'm a hypocrite too. But I would never behave in an arsehole manner like that. I respect some of the lovely people their just not their beliefs.

I go to midnight mass though I am certainly not Christian, I go at the Cathedral and the singing and gathering of people is immense. Its possible to go to events without buying into the religion. When I was travelling i celebrated and went to various religious services but i didnt subscribe to them.

Its a cultural thing as much as anything.

Ahh, the traditional winter solstice, christmas is for christians, thread. Makes me feel a warm seasonal glow.

Very good post Tondelay

Agree with mrs de vere. Hurt me, if you must, destroy my child and I will hate you forever. That includes god, if he exists.

I would rather be an atheist than hate that much.

MrsDeVere, Beast - I can understand that. I'm sincerely sorry for what you've gone through and I would never presume to give you reasons or platitudes. I don't have an answer for why these things happen, or not one that helps anyway. It's just shit. My Dad died when I was young (I am not comparing that to losing a child, I can't begin to imagine that) and I did question my faith for a long time. In the end I decided that if I believed in God while tragedies happened to other people then I still believed in him when it happened to me. But that's a very personal decision. Faith helps some people through bereavement and eradicates faith in others. I don't believe either is the right or wrong reaction, we can only think what we think.

When I was the only thing that irked me [relevant to this thread] was non believers turning up at our child friendly church for Carols service and proceeding to moan all the way through that the children were spoiling it.
And complaining about the 'God Stuff' the vicar insisted on reading in between the singing.

To fair, when I was a Christian, a lot of the Christians I knew would moan about the minister wanting to put God stuff in the carol service! They just wanted a good sing song.

The minister who didn't realise that Christmas day service was supposed to have 5 minute sermon only, as people had to get home as they had turkey in the oven was also in big trouble.

So if the Christians think Christmas is about singing, eating and presents why can't the non-Christians join in?

I would expect to hear a bit of 'god stuff' in even the tamest of WI carol services.

Carols are religious after all!

I totally agree about atheists too, one of my biggest issues with getting older and feeling that, logically there probably isn't a god, is that I might have to call myself one of them.

Hmm isn't it possible that the minister was just a bit rubbish too? You can complain about the 'God stuff' because of the manner in which its done, not because of what its about.

Its about the ability to interest and engage with your audience too.

There are plenty of ministers who could easily bore you to death, but some who would really get you thinking and interest you.

To me there is an element here of how the church needs to understand the people who it caters for and how to connect to them. People made the effort to go to Church in the first place - The question is then, 'Why?' They obviously want something from the church... So what is it that the Church is failing to deliver?

I think the sense of community, familiarity and companionship is a big part of church life.

I doubt an atheist would be going to Church for a carol service.

Some do - a lot of church music is amazing.

MrsDV - sounds awful, I wish I could say something less trite that 'I'm sorry'. And you're right, none of us know where our breaking point is.

Yes to atheists going to Carol services. I went to university in Durham and the Christian Union carol service was held in Durham Cathedral - people started queueing more than an hour early and some years I don't think they could squash everybody in.

Of course it is, but there are still other ways and places to get that. I still think its because people WANT that faith, they are looking for that something else. I think there is a desire to find that 'something' else. Particularly at Christmas. People want meaning in their lives that they maybe can't find anywhere else.

When the Church is failing to meet that desire thats where the issue is. Its not involving people in a way that they find accessible and perhaps gives them that instant gratification that we have become used to in other parts of our lives.

I dunno, I just don't think that people go to Church and complain just because they dislike religion. Its because they dislike the structure and institutionalised ways of their Church.

I would expect to hear a bit of 'god stuff' in even the tamest of WI carol services.

Carols are religious after all!

A lot of the older ones are adaptations of earlier pagan carols. Pretty much anything about holly/ivy, for instance, which are one of the sets of symbols for male/female. In fact, if you look at the lyrics for some of them you can really see that the Christian part had to be shoehorned in and the words really don't fit!

Oh, the holly bears a berry
As white as the milk
And Mary bore Jesus
Who's wrapped up in silk

Isn't a large part of the point of Jesus as the Christ that he was born humble? So not silk? Clearly the only thing the writers could think of to rhyme with milk.

I did read a paper on this somewhere (I think AJPA but am no longer sure)

TAaT then...and you massively missed the point. YABVU.

That silk line has never been in any version of The Holly and the Ivy that I've sang

If you could kindly keep your nose out of how I'd like to celebrate 25th December, that'd be lovely.

There's nothing religious about it, but neither is it all about the presents.

Op, you toddle off and celebrate how you'd like, I'll toddle off on my way and we can keep our opinions to ourselves especially yours that are wrong