to ask for your help in writing an objection to Operation Christmas Child?

[autumnwinds]

Our local primary is supporting OCC and has published a piece in the village magazine explaining how wonderful it is and how much the local children enjoy it, what a difference it makes to needy children, and inviting local residents to donate too. The piece omits any reference to the evangelical christian literature that is distributed with the parcels and the way that the gifts are used as a tool to agressively convert recipients to christianity.

I would like to write a reply for publishing in next month's issue trying to give the full picture so that people can make an informed choice about whether to donate to this charity, and to suggest some alternatives that don't come with the religious baggage.

As I don't have a child at the primary yet I'm not sure about tackling the school itself about it (they are not a faith school, so not sure they should be supporting this). DC will be starting next year so I might save that fight for next xmas!

Anyway does anyone have any ideas about a few lines I could write, something succinct and unemotional? I feel quite cross about it but don't want to come across as an equally fundamentalist atheist. I've been looking for some evidence on the web for people who want to know more but most of it is not well referenced...

Just thought I'd share this gem with you all in case there's still anyone out there in doubt about the real aims of OCC. From Brian's Twitter account:

"I hope it's a shoebox that brings the last Christian into the Kingdom before He comes again!"

That reads like he wants to meet a weirdo who can only climax into a shoebox.

anybags

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Am having visions of Cliff Richard packed into a shoebox. Why????

RedToothbrush Sun 03-Nov-13 10:25:45

• best post I've read on Mumsnet. Thanks.

My UK distribution company has an important project with Mosques around the country. Entitled 'Operation Eid Child', it will ensure all those unfortunate non-Muslim children in the UK who are COMPLETELY GIFTLESS at Eid will get a boxful of tasteful, appropriate Eid gifts, including Allah (swf) fridge magnets, prayer calendars for boys and girls and halal teddy bears.

The lucky children receiving this box will also be offered a 12-week course in Islam at the local Mosque and a special prayer they can say to immediately convert to The Only True Faith.

Perhaps you could swing by Franklin Grahams's place while you're at it, Farmersue

at FarmerSue - the only bit you've missed is how the gifts are donated by non-Muslim children who haven't a clue what the boxes are for.

My issue here is that there is a potential to be putting a big X on the foreheads of kids.

You have to think about it in the context that the charity could be operating in places like Iraq. Which it does.

Leaving it up to locals to make the decision over cultural sensitivities is just not acceptable.

What concerns me is posts like this:

gooner1956 Sun 10-Nov-13 19:07:43
Rhonda, in Matthew 28, Jesus commanded His disciples to "go and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you."

This is called the Great Commission and it is this that has seen the Christian faith spread across the world, and it continues to spread to this day, as individual Christians and churches faithfully tell others of Jesus, and preach His Gospel. If those early Christians hadn't obeyed Jesus, often at the cost of their very lives, I wouldn't have heard about Jesus, let alone follow Him ...

Why does this concern me? Because of the idea of risking your life to spread the word and this is revered by the likes of Brian, in the way he has.

It does not take much for someone to see the cause in the same way and that its worth risking everything for. Which might be fine if it was just them this effected, but its not. You are also talking about children.

If there is no accountability of those people on the ground and no guidance or training given to set boundaries of what is culturally acceptable or sensitive, then you are letting loose people who mean well, but ultimately could be endangering others - particularly children - who are not capable for fully understanding the implications.

There MUST be something written to make people giving to the charity feel comfortable that the welfare of all who come into contact with the charity is considered.

By that you need to put in place certain policies; for example it is simply not acceptable to be handing out literature in areas where there has been religious unrest, terrorism or conflict within the last X amount of years.

Given that Operation Christmas Child operates in an sizeable number of countries which would fail on this count, this would be very important.

No one wants to contribute to a charity which doesn't give serious thought as to whether it might draw attention which, in the worst of circumstances, could lead to someone planting a bomb under a school. The lack of this being outlined, raises very serious questions. People need reassurance that this potential and very real threat is being considered.

I note that Brian has been online again tonight and has yet to comment too...

Red, the local churches involved in distributing shoeboxes and giving classes are trained by their Regional/National Leadrship Team (RLT/NLT). Each RLT/NLT is trained by, and is accountable to Samaritan's Purse (SP); SP's Ministry Partner Training is extensive and is carried out annually. RLTs/NLTs are required to keep records, produce reports and their performance is managed through independent monitoring and evaluation on a random/ongoing basis. Churches failing to comply with these strict guidelines are dealt with by the NLT; NLTs will not risk missing out on this programme through non-compliance.

If you send me an email, I'd be happy to provide you with an outline of the processes involved, including training, reporting, monitoring and evaluation. Brian

Rhonda, you know full well that I was quoting Will Graham in my Twitter post.

Anybags, I am disgusted by the comment that you made following Rhonda's post - shameful.

Oh, do lighten up, Brian.

So are you distancing yourself from the tweet, then?

Why would I quote what Will Graham said if I didn't like it?

I didn't ask whether you liked it.

But since you ask, if you do like it, what was your point about it being a quote from someone else? I just don't get your comment about it

Oh and who is Will Graham? Another one of the family, by any chance?

So what if they're selling Jesus? Do you really think that these impoverished children or their parents are going to be converted by some stupid pamphlet? The only thing the children will notice or care about is the presents and the only thing the parents will care about is the joy their children will get from their new presents. It's really mean spirited and nasty to try to stop others from sending little children presents because you dislike a religious message.

Anti religionists are entitled to set up an alternative Operation Anti Religion Child if they feel so obliged, a much better use of energy than trying to deprive the most deprived of the smallest luxuries.

As for OCC running in the schools, so what? Children learn how many children are so poor they literally have nothing, no books, toys, hygiene items, they realise that they are lucky to have been born into a relatively wealthy part of the world and that they have so much, they learn to appreciate what they have and to think what another child might enjoy and have fun creating their own gift box for someone who will genuinely appreciate it. Nothing there that isn't good for them.

It is pure intolerance to try to stop a charity because their beliefs are not the same as yours. Most charities helping people in the third and developing world are not atheist and fully in line with the fashionable first world political ideologies. If people have a problem with that they can set up their own to help. The people on the receiving end couldn't give a shit what their helpers believe, just that someone cares enough to provide something they need.

zatyaz - As has been said many times, the OCC are not transparent about their aims and work. People should know what they are donating to. That is a basic level of transparency any charity owes to it's donors.

If you don't approve of this then fine. Don't donate or take part. Christmas is a Christian festival even if it isn't historically. I've heard these boxes are really appreciated by the recipients.

Occ need to be honest. Do you understand that that is what many of us want? OCC to be honest and transparent about their aims. That is all

This thread is unbelievable.

I was going to do 1 box for OCC. I'm going to do 2 now.

Um. C of E as I am, there's Christian, and then there's The Handmaid's Tale.

The head of the charity, Franklin Graham, the elder son of the television evangelist Billy Graham, was introduced to the work of Samaritan's Purse in 1973 by its founder, Bob Pierce, a family friend.

Pierce took Graham on a tour of Asia. In India, Graham wrote of "hundreds of millions of people locked in the darkness of Hinduism . . . bound by Satan's power".

He took over leadership of the charity in the late 1970s and, from its US base in North Carolina, has built Samaritan's Purse into a major international agency. The US charity's website describes the organisation as a "ministry" and says that, in Graham's early involvement, he "saw the poverty of pagan religions and the utter despair of the people they enslave".

Graham’s view is of American exceptionalism, which revolves around the idea of a special relationship between God and the United States. “God has blessed the United States of America more than any other nation on this earth,” Graham said. “But we’ve turned our back on God as a nation and it’s sad, and I believe that his hand of blessing could slowly be removed from this country. We need to repent.”

He's a hardcore fundamentalist Christian. Rampant homophobe, Islamophobe (he's on record as describing Island as "a wicked and evil religion") and deeply sexist - their answer to gende violence is Christian marital education projects so men and women learn to live together in Christian harmony. Bet that's effective. He's also paid over a million a year by Samaritan's Purse and Dad's charity combined - both full time salaries. Nice work if you can get it. Wonder how many shoeboxes that would buy?

Oxfam and Save the Children have refused to work with them, Co-op, DHL and the Inland Revenue all pulled out of funding them, and MPs have withdrawn their names from a motion of support when they learned what exactly they were supporting. You don't see any problem? Fine, absolutely, but don't blame others for wanting to explain the background before primary schoolkids and their parents wrap up their little parcels, unaware that a pledge card will be inserted in which the recipient can give their heart to Christ. It's not whining to want people to be properly informed, is it?

I'm happy to donate heavily to Harvest Festival and DS is baptised, so I'm hardly militantly atheist! But I'd rather set fire to the money than donate anything to a "charity" preaching hatred and control in the name of Christ. This isn't Christian Aid. It's US style fundamentalism - The Handmaid's Tale territory. I was planning my shoeboxes before I found out who these people actually are, and what their agenda is. I for one am very grateful to learn that.

It's a shame that instead of getting so worked up over this one charity you don't just find one you do agree with and support them instead. I bet many of the those disagreeing with OCC don't put as much effort in researching their own personal choice of charity, I doubt if there is any charity out there that you would totally agree with everything they stand for.
Do you agree with all those charities that send you gifts/cuddly toys/ letters from the animals etc? I personally just think I'd rather my donations are spent in a useful way not wasted on some crappy toy I don't need.

You've probably guessed that I do support OCC, I've spent many hours making craft items and toys etc and have just filled over 20 boxes. That's over 20 children that will have gifts that otherwise wouldn't. I doubt very much if the little leaflet or talk has that deep an impact on the children. I'm sure they will just be happy to receive the box and know that someone has bothered with them and cares.

After all that I'd still love to see a pic of the dinosaur polo draught excluder please!!!

Grrr, stupid predictive text! Dinosaur poo!!!

It's a shame that instead of getting so worked up over this one charity you don't just find one you do agree with and support them instead. I bet many of the those disagreeing with OCC don't put as much effort in researching their own personal choice of charity, I doubt if there is any charity out there that you would totally agree with everything they stand for.

I do. No, I don't always agree with all they do (microfinance initiatives, for example, are rather worrying in some ways and I don't donate there anymore in consequence), but I don't find myself appalled by them, either. The charities I support do the best work they can in difficult and controversial situations, I think. Wouldn't support them otherwise. And for the umpteenth time, what is bothering people is the lack of transparency. I had no idea who these people were and what their agenda was, and nor do most of the parents at the school, who assume it's like Christian Aid, or the food bank collections at the local church. These people are entitled to do what they like and you're entitled to think it's fabulous - but we're entitled to be told what that is, too, so we can choose honestly. No?