to ask for your help in writing an objection to Operation Christmas Child?

[autumnwinds]

Our local primary is supporting OCC and has published a piece in the village magazine explaining how wonderful it is and how much the local children enjoy it, what a difference it makes to needy children, and inviting local residents to donate too. The piece omits any reference to the evangelical christian literature that is distributed with the parcels and the way that the gifts are used as a tool to agressively convert recipients to christianity.

I would like to write a reply for publishing in next month's issue trying to give the full picture so that people can make an informed choice about whether to donate to this charity, and to suggest some alternatives that don't come with the religious baggage.

As I don't have a child at the primary yet I'm not sure about tackling the school itself about it (they are not a faith school, so not sure they should be supporting this). DC will be starting next year so I might save that fight for next xmas!

Anyway does anyone have any ideas about a few lines I could write, something succinct and unemotional? I feel quite cross about it but don't want to come across as an equally fundamentalist atheist. I've been looking for some evidence on the web for people who want to know more but most of it is not well referenced...

my school's HT was 'completely unaware' of the background to OCC as the people who came in to talk to her about it made ABSOLUTELY NO MENTION of the evangelical aspect, or of the 'political' nature of samaritan's purse. HT was horrified to find out what she'd agreed to and cancelled immediately.

this has been the case at several local schools. in fact i don't know personally of any individual or organisation who, having read all the facts, has gone ahead with OCC. including local christian schools who you might have thought would be more relaxed about it.

Do people not understand the difference between choice and informed choice? When my DSs were at Primary School we filled shoe boxes for OCC as their school supported it. I also filled a shoe box as someone from work organised it. I would not have supported OCC had I been aware of its evangelical stance and also it other activities, for example paying out USD 150,000 to support anti gay marriage (that money could have surely gone a long way in helping the disadvantaged.....).

I suppose I consider myself a Christian, I believe in God (brought up a catholic), I believe in helping people less fortunate then I am, I believe in treating people with compassion. I don't believe in forcing what I believe in on to anyone else who believe in something different, I believe that is called respect.

So I will be looking into donating in another form that lets people believe in what they want and give gifts for the pleasure of giving and not because they hope to get more followers to their way of thinking as I am now aware of OCC's stance.

For those who are happy to participate with OCC knowing how they work then fill your boots, but no one on here is suggesting not to be charitable, they just want to do it in a different way.

You can evangelize without gifts and give gifts without evangelism, how is it moral to entice children to evangelism with toys?

"Exexpat, you are so naughty!" What exactly are you referring to here, Brian?

All I have been doing is pointing people to the facts of how OCC operates, usually by linking to your own websites.

Yes, I understand what informed choice is.
You're presuming that everyone doesn't have a clue that it's a Christian organisation and so are going in, telling schools how 'bad' it is and therefore removing the choice for those who DO want to donate.
What if they already know and WANT to donate at their school, then suddenly can't because someone else has decided the school shouldn't be doing it?

fromparistoberlin so you're cool with the fact that money you've donated for 'expenses' or 'admin' along with the shoeboxes might have been used as part of that $150,000 anti gay support mentioned above?

I had no idea about OCC before reading this thread. Am horrified by some of the stuff posted, and the links. Good grief.

fromparistoberlin - well, Samaritan's Purse seems to think the Operation Christmas Child programme is quite effective at converting children to christianity.

This page of their website claims that between 2009 and (I think) 2012, "665,332 children have confirmed decisions for Christ in writing, and
711,088 children have committed to praying for/sharing their faith with family and friends."

I have actually never done it, purely as I am a lazy fucker

I just happen to think the greater good, overshadows the negative if that makes sense? and dont get all cross, its an opinion, in a debate

What if they already know and WANT to donate at their school, then suddenly can't because someone else has decided the school shouldn't be doing it?

Who, the head teacher? If the head doesn't think it's appropriate, because one or two parents have raised concerns, then of course the school doesn't do it, but I'm sure OCC accept individual donations as well as organised collections.

jellyboats - anyone whose school decides to stop promoting Operation Christmas Child can still donate directly as an individual - their website has lots of ways to do that. No one is removing their choice.

I just happen to think the greater good, overshadows the negative if that makes sense?

It does make sense but I don't think it's a good argument. It's a bit like voting for a party who have several good manifesto promises that you believe in very thoroughly, but a couple of bad policies that you're prepared to overlook, rather than seeking out a party that you can support wholeheartedly.

I find it sort of lazy, I suppose. It's easy to support the headline charities (say Oxfam, Children in Need, RSPCA) because you hear a lot about them and they set up easy ways for you to donate. But that doesn't absolve you of the responsibility to look for other ways to meet need elsewhere. You can't walk past an old lady staggering in the street just because you have a direct debit to Age UK.

I didn't know about the proselytising. Neither is the OP telling me what to think. If you believe that is what she is doing then so are 99% of the threads on Mn which incidentally don't attract such a hostile reaction (projection maybe?).

I would certainly prefer to use a non religious charity to help. You know, one that just does good and doesn't expect anything back (like new converts)? I will look at the other charities mentioned on here.

I just happen to think the greater good, overshadows the negative if that makes sense?

That's pretty much what Mao said about his Great Leap Forward!

It's a Christian charity. So bloody what if, at a few select churches over there, put a leaflet in?
Most kids (well, all the ones I know, including my own!) wouldn't even read the thing anyway - would be too interested in the toys to care about a boring waffling on leaflet!It'd get discarded and ignored.
It's not like OCC batter you round the head with the leaflet and make you chant the Lords Prayer on loop before you're allowed to so much as touch a shoebox.

you cannot surely be comparing me to Chairman Mao

and horry is suggesting I ignore staggering old ladies

Look, I think its good that people care about issues. I just feel that there are such awful things going on that...this does not really inflame me

DO not copy and paste this, as I said "lets agree to disagree" yes?

Where are those boxes going? The recipients will hardly give a toss about religious literature.

I don't think you're ignoring old ladies really

I think that OCC is definitely an "agree to disagree" area. I choose not to support the charity because the evangelism bit isn't something I can support. You choose to support them because you think the good they do is enough greater than the potential harm

What I refuse to let go, however, is the idea that schools and parents currently have enough information easily enough to make a real decision, and I don't think it's enough for one organiser to make the judgement call of what information is enough/most important to tell parents.

If I get a letter from school, I assume the contents are factual and complete; doesn't everyone? I haven't got the energy time to get on Google to check the background of every project or organisation that ever comes in my way: I trust school, nursery or work to have done the "due diligence" for me.

Brian's quotations above are unequivocal. They shouldn't just be on the website for maybe 5-10% of participants to look at, they should be front and centre of every information pack or leaflet or bookbag letter, etc for all participants to see.

i nned to read more about this Brian chappy hey

I have just discovered that DS's school is supporting OCC. I will be writing to the head teacher to ask him if he's aware of OCC's evangelical agenda, and the unpleasantly socially conservative and xenophobic agenda of its parent organisation in the US.

I appreciate that giving children the opportunity to express their generosity to people in need is very worthwhile, so I'm going to recommend that in future, the school supports the Trussell Trust's Christmas Box appeal, which sends boxes to some of the poorest people in Bulgaria. According to their website: "People of all ages receive boxes, ranging from Roma people living in freezing conditions and struggling to survive, to abandoned and orphaned children living in state care. Last year we hand-delivered thousands of shoeboxes to: orphanages, Roma communities, women’s refuges, prisoner’s children, housebound elderly people, rural schools and refugee centres."

Exexpat, I say you are 'naughty' because you have an agenda and you will seemingly twist anything you see and hear to support that agenda.

As a case in point ... you have just posted the following comment:

This page of their website claims that between 2009 and (I think) 2012, "665,332 children have confirmed decisions for Christ in writing, and 711,088 children have committed to praying for/sharing their faith with family and friends."

The link you provided points, correctly, to The Greatest Journey page on the Samaritan's Purse website and NOT Operation Christmas Child. Do I need to reprint The Journey of a Shoebox which clearly states that The Greatest Journey is a voluntary, FOLLOW ON programme to Operation Christmas Child?

Oh good, Brian's back again! Brian - are you ever going to address the issue of Franklin Graham spending $150,000 of the charity's donations on anti-gay proaganda?

If we are talking about agendas, isn't signing children up for The Greatest Journey a crucial part of the agenda of Operation Christmas Child?

MyDogEatsPoop I am not able to comment on where Samaritan's Purse in the US receives funding from or how it spends it. Nor will I be drawn on rhetoric. If this is something that you desperately want to know then send me an email and I'll get you an official response. My email address is [email protected],uk.

The occ website is pretty clear. I pointed this out to head of my dd school and he has promised to change the shoebox scheme to something more suited to a common city school..,

www.operationchristmaschild.org.uk/landing.asp

The where the shoebox go stories are all about god.
www.operationchristmaschild.org.uk/article/storyID/126

Fine for a faith school maybe but not a secular state school
And where does the minimum 3£ per box go? Presumably literature as well as shipping

You can donate toys pens etc direct to eg kids company helping UK kids
Scroll down to donate in kind

www.kidsco.org.uk/donate

Or donate to local women's refuge or contact centre etc