Animals vs humans

[fifi669]

AIBU to think if faced with choosing a pet over a human (even if a stranger), you should choose the human?

The idea was brought up in another thread and put in life or death situation. Building on fire contains your pet and a stranger. You could only save one, who would it be?

I had a dog, Ralph, I cried my heart out when he died 3 years ago. The only dog I wasn't scared of! But I can't imagine leaving a person to die instead, no matter how my heart would break.

Maid that's exactly what I meant, but on a general not individual level. I think there are too many people who willingly hurt others for the argument that 'as a race we have an instinct beyond emotion or logic to save others' to stand. I think we have an instinct to save ourselves, but that's it.

I was not talking about individuals, not you, not me and definitely not Saddam Hussein (although his existence as a human does support my view).

This is a very hypothetical question. It can be delved into is the stranger a bad person? etc. Are you risking your own life?

You will survive, one other will. Just one. They can't save themselves but you have the power to help. The stranger is an average run of the mill person and not a weirdo. The pet is yours. That's what I posed as the question in my mind...

Kittensoft I don't actually see much (if any?) assertion that the "pro-human" side has claimed any kind of moral superiority?

Strumpetron Where did I psychobabble? I suggested you posted a photo to generate an emotional response, which you've confirmed? I withdraw the proposal to post inappropriate pictures bows.

Oh I think they have. Look back through the thread. It only turned into being about logic when that position was not sustainable.

To these people who would save their dog over a human? If I saved my lovely dog ZAC over your dear mother/father/child (who is a total stranger to me) how would you feel? intrigued .....

Unless you're a fireman I couldn't blame you because I'd do the same (although I'd save the child before the dog).

Outraged OK, I shall drop the Saddam Hussein tangent...

As previously mentioned, the instinct to save yourself may be manifested in ways other than literally removing your own ass from danger? You save part of yourself when you give your life for that of your child. You save part of yourself when you risk your life for that of another (on the basis of reciprocal altruism). You save part of yourself when you pay into society by providing a job/service and access the firefighters/paramedics/etc.

But vague, but hopefully you see my point? (although maybe not agree).

maid no you said I did it to provoke an emotional response and others and perhaps repentance. Which I didnt and nor did I admit to as I said it was to convey my emotions not influence other people's. As in this instance I'm really not interested in trying to convince anyone to change their minds, as their opinions and choices are reasonable. I just feel differently that's all.

I save a child over my dog.

Fanof - I think it's important that it's talked about, as you do, in explicit terms of seriously being prepared to die yourself for x living being, because that's the reality.

And that's why your base, gut, selfish instinct would take over. Whether that be to leg it and save nothing or no one, or whether it's just to save the only things you love strongly enough (and I reckon, human nature being what it is, that's mostly only going to be things you have an engrained caring instinct for (ie children and, for some people, pets). It would be a brutal (death vs X) calculation. I don't buy it that most people are going to be there visualising the grieving families of strangers, or any of that guff.

Or if they are, only by virtue of the fact that they are 'lucky' enough to be endowed with a high fear/risk threshold and therefore don't think they're very likely to die trying to save the stranger.

Yes, I agree that other peoples choices are reasonable. You save what you love. Pity the other side can't do the same.

I'd save the person then go back and if necessary die with my dog , there is no way I would leave him behind .i don't care if people think I'm a knob .

To these people who would save their dog over a human? If I saved my lovely dog ZAC over your dear mother/father/child (who is a total stranger to me) how would you feel?

Clearly I wouldn't blame you because I'd know I'd have done the same.

Bit that you seem to be either implying that anyone like me is a massive hypocrite, or that they're so stupid that they've forumulated a strongly held belief without realising that they wouldn't tolerate the same view on others.

And what do you think people will say? 'ooooohhh, duuuuh, only just realised, I'd be gutted and go mental and blame you for ever. Oh, actually I've changed my mind about saving my pet. Thanks for pointing out my inconsistency'.

Maid I see your point, but no I don't agree. Humans are cruel to strangers. How many of us buy clothes made in sweatshops? Food that isn't fairtrade? We have an instinct to protect ourselves and our 'in-group', but none towards strangers. If as a species we looked out for others we just wouldn't have the world we have. We wouldn't have a few with all the money and others with nothing. Historically, slavery would never have happened in a species with an instinct to protect each other. We use and exploit strangers for our own good, that's what we are as a species.

I'd save the person then go back and if necessary die with my dog , there is no way I would leave him behind .i don't care if people think I'm a knob

I don't think you're a nob :)

leBFG I have just started Singers book, interesting stuff, he basically evolved utilitarianism to include animals. It's a confusing theory, greater good and all that but dismisses individuals rights. Am quite new to the subject but find it all fascinating. Am in a rush but will come back to this thread later. My essay is actually on ethical arguments for and against the use of animals in medical research. Maybe I should start a thread to garner public opinion!

sleepyfish sorry if you've already said but what are you studying?

I've studied Utilitarianism, I'd be interested to read Singer's if it encompasses animals too.

Woozlebear - I dont know what I was expecting the answer to be thats why I asked the question I suppose... your very defensive in your responce - Interesting, but doesnt suprise me as you wouldent blame me for saving my dog/cat/lizard/Rat over your DC...

This may well be the funniest thread I've ever read. Who knew a discussion about an imaginary fire, an imaginary stranger and imaginary pets could get so heated?!

I'm not defenive, just think you took quite a rudely patronising line.

It really depresses me when people wheel out the ridiculous 'ooooh look you're being defensive' argument to 'prove' that someone somehow must realise they're wrong. Especially when they weren't even being what could be described as defensive anyway.

If you read my response all the stuff which you're presumably categorising as 'defensive' is nothing about me arguing for my position, it's me taking issue with the assumptions/ implications behind your question.

Someone being defensive and someone calling you on something you've said are two entirely different things.

coolstorybro my thoughts exactly, I was actually lauging out loud at some posts...

Woozlebear thanks for clarifying!

This is mumsnet. Literally ANYTHING can become a bunfight.

No worries. Hope it helps in future

Of course you save the person!

What kind of excuse for a human being wouldn't?