Animals vs humans

[fifi669]

AIBU to think if faced with choosing a pet over a human (even if a stranger), you should choose the human?

The idea was brought up in another thread and put in life or death situation. Building on fire contains your pet and a stranger. You could only save one, who would it be?

I had a dog, Ralph, I cried my heart out when he died 3 years ago. The only dog I wasn't scared of! But I can't imagine leaving a person to die instead, no matter how my heart would break.

Maid
That's your opinion.
The discussion here was based on it being morally superior to prefer humans to animals.
And actually, this enlightened, advanced species is screwing up the world for all the other species.

outraged the numbers of those people you describe are, thankfully, tiny compare to the population of the planet. I wouldn't not rescue someone on the off chance they fell into one of those categories.

..but you don't know the persons family. Do you just imagine faces? In a split second, life or death situation you think your brain would summon up an imaginary family?

Sure, outraged, I agree. It's indisputable that there are some dangerous shits out there. But there are small and great acts of heroism and selfless every minute of every day.

I was unlucky enough to be caught in a big fucking earthquake 3 years ago and I saw people move into autopilot, saving strangers, re-directing traffic, putting water in vats and offering help. They weren't people doing their jobs, just people helping.

Sleepy, you should read Singer who discusses this sort of thing at length.

He argues from a utilitarian POV: what is their capacity to enjoy life? and by extension, those of them around.

So if you were being logical following this ethical construction, you would assess the stranger and his/her future capacity to enjoy life (obviously a lot, same as you or I) plus the people his/her life touches. The dog has less years to look forward to plus less capacity to enjoy life plus his/her death only affects you and close family.

If it was an old person, with no close family and terminal cancer then I suppose it would make sense to choose the dog? If your stance however is a pure and simple humanist you would choose any human life over any animal. Because it's a human. Just that.

Go read Singer

Outraged I think the idea that we can definitely count on human instinct to protect or save the life of other humans is a bit far fetched tbh

That's a non-sequiteur. We are not talking about whether Saddam Hussein would have saved the human being, we are talking about whether you or I would save the human being. I trust my instincts, and I trust them to command different behaviours to that of a genocidal war criminal.

What if you knew they did Rino?

I'd save the dog if I didn't know the person and there was a good chance that they could follow me and said dog out

If both were trapped and in need of assistance I'd help the dog first as I can't carry the weight of a fully grown human whereas I can carry my dog. I would try to remove anything on top of them and would alert fire fighters

Humans trumping animals is slightly iffy. I would make no effort to save a murderer/rapist/child abuser ect but I'd try to save a child before the dog if the dog could follow me out

From an evolutionary perspective, we are all selfish (just to clarify). We only cooperate to benefit ourselves (I'll scratch my back if you scratch mine).

sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1386011_10152039536478885_1964513071_n.jpg

that boy is the most amazing animal.

'We are not talking about whether Saddam Hussein would have saved the human being, we are talking about whether you or I would save the human being.

No, Maid I was talking about human nature in general, based on the article linked to and little's interesting comments about it. I wasn't questioned for that research, I don't think Saddam Hussein was. If you were part of that sample I apologise for the confusion.

Why are you supposed to prefer humans? Unless you are religious?
A lot of them aren't very nice, and there are far too many of them.

Agree a million times over. I would want to save my cats. Although I do wonder if the fear of reprisals (or actual pressure at the time to do so) would make me save the stranger instead, although I'd never forgive myself for leaving my cats to suffer. It would be a toss up between fear of public condemnation and dread of private guilt. I like to think I don't care what people think, but...

I fully understand and accept that that is not the 'normal' position . But I don't think it's a logic vs emotion thing. I think most people say they'd save the human simply because they've been succesfully conditioned by society to accept society's self-interested preservation myth that humans are the most imprortant thing ever. I haven't. I like and love some individual humans very much. But I genuinely don't understand how or why humans 'should' always get preference in everything. It's just not logical. It's just convenient for us humans to insist it's true.

It's like a religious stance in itself really, in the way it's so widely and unquestioningly believed, with no logical support, and so vehemently enforced, and how badly dissenters are treated/viewed.

And at the people patting each other on the back for all being sooo wonderfully empathetic. Ok, I get it. Human beings are superior to everything else ever, all the time, because...umm...they just are obv, duuuuuh. And you're particularly superior because you're sufficiently amazing and wonderful to accept this indocrination / evolutionary programmed instinct. The funny thing is, if you were so empathetic, you'd be able to understand where the people who disagree with you are coming from...no?

How do you know you're all going to be so logical at the time anyway? Who's to say you're not going to be gibbering hysterically in your nightie, wailing hysterically and saving a sock, a packet of hobnobs and your alarm clock because they're the only things you could see.

Let's hope it never happens to any of us.

LeBFG Agree. I wasn't really saying that our selflessness was intended to be unrewarded...

LeBFG has made a good point.

outraged assuming I absolutely knew, honestly, I don't know. But I find the idea that I could stand by and watch someone die, whoever they are, very uncomfortable.

I was raped as a teenager, if my rapist was trapped somehow and I was the only person there to help, would I? The answer is yes (and I say that having spent. Long time thinking about it). The reason being that he put himself before me, if I then put my own desire for revenge effort his life then I'm not sure I'd be any better than him and that would disgust me.

Now if he was trapped and wasn't in immediate danger of Seth and I could hear the sirens on their way, is absolutely turn my back and walk away and leave his sorry ass for someone else.

Outraged You said: Given that there are so many murderers, child abusers, rapists, war criminals etc. I think the idea that we can definitely count on human instinct to protect or save the life of other humans is a bit far fetched tbh.

I read this as you doubting the existence of a human instinct to save lives, based on the existence of evil people. Apologies if I've misunderstood your statement. Can you clarify what you meant by this then?

This thread is well going to get a mention on the wright stuff

I am going to be brutally honest and say that in a life and death situation of someone being trapped and about to die then the only person I would ever go in for is my ds. If they are unable to get out and in such grave danger then what risk are you putting yourself in as if you go then there are likely to be two of you in the same situation.

I know firefighters go in but they have equipment and training. I don't and the only person I'd risk dying for is my child. I doubt I'd go into a grave situation to try and save dh. I wouldn't want him to for me either if it meant orphaning my child.

I wouldn't want to watch a stranger die, of course I wouldn't. But I'm honest in admitting that I wouldn't die for them either. If that makes me a selfish bitch then I'm a selfish bitch. Hands up.

sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/534788_10151622788123885_239429768_n.jpg

Oh and as an aside, why are animals more likely to escape than humans as mentioned upthread? We are all just animals really, surely we are equipped with as much chance at survival than any other animal. Not that I'm advocating saving animals before people, but that argument makes little sense.

Strumpetron I'm to sure what the photos are supposed to achieve, other than to provoke some kind of emotional response, and perhaps repentance at how anyone could choose a human animal over a doggy animal?

Should I start posting pictures of burnt children?

Woodle. Exactly.
I think that the pro human side have got themselves in a bit of a muddle as to whether their view is morally superior or logical.

Actually I meant to post the first one, the second one was supposed to go in my other topic :) The first one was just to show that I love my animal, I have a bond with him I have with no other human and that is why I answered as I did. You don't have to pyscho-babble my post. I don't give a shit what people's choices are, I've already said I understand why people would chose the human.

and no since I haven't posted pictures of burned dogs

You scratch my back, I scratch yours...aka...you save my child in a fire, I'll save yours...I might grab your dog on the way out given the opportunity.

When my DCs were young I used to lie in bed at night planning evacuations!

Save my dog or my children? My children.
Save my dog or your children? Your children.
Save my dog or your MIL? Ah! Well! Oh, she's probably old anyway.

Seriously? I just don't know. I cannot visualise leaving my dog behind, to save a stranger. I cannot visualise leaving a stranger, to hear their screams echoing after me. Can I try for both?

Oh this is not good. Now I'm going to find myself lying awake making evacuation plans again. Night after night after night. I'm not happy.