Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder why non-believers send their doc to faith schools

208 replies

Latetothematch · 29/10/2013 10:09

Not a thread about a thread but thought whilst reading a thread when reading 'dc goes to a faith school and comes home with questions but we don't believe'.

Why send your child to a school where you do not believe what it is teaching?

OP posts:
SuburbanRhonda · 30/10/2013 08:16

Our local (outstanding in all categories) Catholic secondary school describes itself as "non-selective" Halloween Shock.

I feel your pain, grobags

octopusinastringbag · 30/10/2013 08:18

MothershipG can they say they will only take churched children? My understanding was that the usual criteria for church schools was something like 1. looked after/SEN 2. Churched children 3. Every body else. I would be very surprised if 2. filled up a school nowadays?

SuburbanRhonda · 30/10/2013 09:03

Octopus, in the school I described above, "everybody" else is category number 17. I shit you not.

And in a local VA primary school, LAC of religious parents are placed before LAC with non-religious parents Shock

itshowwedo · 30/10/2013 09:34

Yes, JassyRadlett. That's it exactly. One of the other lovely people upthread is starting a petition to that effect.

Won't do any good mind, but then I'm withdrawing my labour from work tomorrow, and that won't do any good either...

It can't be good for my blood pressure, but I do get blood-boilingly angry when I think about Church "property".

Emmabombemma · 30/10/2013 10:09

ImagineJL I agree with you.

How much does it really matter? Doesn't being taught RE just give our children information about lots of religions so they can make up their own minds? I also agree that the moral values which broadly cover many religions are valuable lessons for children.

It's also a valid point that if you're so outraged by your child having to engage in religious activities it might be worth thinking about why you allow them to celebrate Christmas and Easter.

I totally sympathise with the lack of schools offering good support for children with disabilities but that's another issue.

SuburbanRhonda · 30/10/2013 11:02

emma, the moral values you talk about are not exclusive to religion.

And you think Christmas and Easter are all about religion? Have you been in Tesco's recently? Grin

octopusinastringbag · 30/10/2013 11:11

Suburban Category 17?! Shock

SuburbanRhonda · 30/10/2013 11:14

Yup. If it wouldn't out me, I would post the link to the admissions criteria document.

I'm more outraged at the thought that any school could prioritise one Looked After Child over another based on the religious beliefs of their parents.

octopusinastringbag · 30/10/2013 11:15

Locally, it's looked after children, siblings, people going to the churches in the parish, any other C of E church outside the parish, other christian church in the town, other faith communities, catchment area and finally distance so 8 categories in all.
I expect most children come from category 2 siblings and 7 catchment area.

SuburbanRhonda · 30/10/2013 11:22

That sounds pretty straightforward, octopus, if you leave aside the complete nonsense of prioritising children based on their parents' religious beliefs.

The school I'm talking about is a large secondary and is heavily over-subscribed, hence the need for 17 categories. You would need a degree in church hierarchy just to understand some of them Smile

Oldandcobwebby · 30/10/2013 11:42

My child is not yet old enough for school, but I would happily send her to a "worse" school rather than to a church school. It would concern me deeply for her to be to be taught in a place where they cannot distinguish fact from fiction.

We need to move to a truly secular, inclusive education system.

Oldandcobwebby · 30/10/2013 11:42

My child is not yet old enough for school, but I would happily send her to a "worse" school rather than to a church school. It would concern me deeply for her to be to be taught in a place where they cannot distinguish fact from fiction.

We need to move to a truly secular, inclusive education system.

FreudiansSlipper · 30/10/2013 13:01

what choice do you have? ds does not go to a c of e school but the certainly are pushing christianity. i was aware that they are a christian based school but certainly not to the level that they have become in recent years (change of headteacher)

i feel the school hid their religious stance when i went to view the school, others have felt the same. their assembly are christian based, praying the telling of christian stories its done in a gentle but powerful way. at parents evening i spoke about this with his teacher, i am aware they learn about other religions but was told if i wanted i could take ds out of assembly. i do not want to do this but rather they did not pray at all and learnt about all religions equally

Emmabombemma · 30/10/2013 13:26

No suburban I'm not saying moral values are exclusive to religion at all (I'm not religious). I'm saying that they can be considered as something useful for children to take from their education, even if they decide not to follow the religion of their school.

Christmas and Easter are religious celebrations despite what Tesco et al would have you all believe Wink

SuburbanRhonda · 30/10/2013 14:46

Emma, the problem with justifying religion in education by saying it teaches children moral values is that they may end up thinking they are exclusive to religion. IMO children need to know that having strong moral values is good for society, not just good for getting you into heaven Wink.

And think what you want about Christmas and Easter, but if you took away the commercialism, for most people there would be no point at all to them.

azzbiscuit · 30/10/2013 16:32

The real question is why do believers feel so insecure about their religion that they insist schools help them indoctrinate their young children with religious dogma devoid of any evidence, rather than feel confident that their kids will see that religion is obviously the correct one once they're mature enough to make their own mind up?

SuburbanRhonda · 30/10/2013 16:38

They would say they want to spread the Good News, biscuit.

They've got an answer for everything, just rarely the right one Halloween Grin

Emmabombemma · 30/10/2013 17:57

Indoctrinate? Wow. They don't still get beaten by nuns you know. They 'teach' them the way they believe to be true, then they can decide for themselves.

I am agreeing with you about Christmas; there IS no point unless you are religious but people don't appear to mind being hypocritical in that respect (blah blah it's a disgrace that my child is in a nativity play blah blah but yes they will be getting hundreds of pounds of presents...)

nobodysbaby · 30/10/2013 18:07

Emma, I'm sure you know that there have been feasts and festivals throughout recorded history at the points in the year that coincide with what are now Christian festivals. Pre Christianity they were linked to farming and the changes in the seasons. People like and need communal celebrations, and the fact that this need has currently been hijacked by Christianity won't stop me from enjoying them. And even if people are hypocritical, that doesn't make forcing chilfren to go to religious schools ok, does it?

sheridand · 30/10/2013 18:16

Please let there be a real move towards totally secular schooling in my lifetime. This whole thread is an illustraton of why religion has no part in schooling. Madness that people don't have a choice but to send their children to religious schools.

If you want a religious education, you should pay for one, to my mind. State education at primary is religious enough. Would that the link were severed! A state comprehensive system should be just that, comprehensive, with NO religious criteria. It's one ( of the many) reasons I don't like Free schools too.

I saw, whilst teaching, parents "get" religion to get into schools. I saw them try anything rather than let Jocasta go to the primary down the road. I saw schools become "Muslim" or "Jewish" through intake, and now it's ok through Free Schools. And yet the best school I ever taught in was 80% children with a foreign language, had a massive mix of over 15 different relligions, and over 70 different nationalities. It was truly comprehensive. The worst was religious, and allmost entirely white middle class and selective. But how do you judge results? Which school was better, the selective, which threw God down your throat and got A*, but woe betide if you didn't make the grade, or the comp, which didn't do God, and got kids who had arrived from war-torn countries only two years ago and lived in care a C at GCSE? And thus, any child who tried there did well? I know the answer.

octopusinastringbag · 30/10/2013 18:16

Rhonda I know the school you mean I think; it's discussed on fair admissions. It looks ridiculous :(

Emmabombemma · 30/10/2013 18:23

In an ideal world there would be more choice yes. I'm saying I just don't think it does children any harm, therefore it's not that big a deal. Maybe you've had a bad experience but I haven't.

BackOnlyBriefly · 30/10/2013 20:37

Emmabombemma to expand on what nobodysbaby said about christmas it is in fact not a christian festival. The church moved the birth of jesus to the date we already celebrated so they could say "hey! look how many people celebrate the birth of baby jesus".

I hope no christians have a tree, holly or yule log as they are all pagan symbols not christian ones. Easter is just as bad. The eggs are to honor a fertility goddess.

Pretty sure Christians have a commandment about the worship of other gods, but don't let that stop you joining in the orgy of eating and present giving.

What was that about hypocrisy?

HellsBellsnBucketsofBlood · 30/10/2013 21:16

The only schools around here are faith schools (C of E). We have no choice at all. Would much prefer a secular school - but that's not going to happen any time soon.

TattyDevine · 30/10/2013 21:21

Lots of faith schools round here (rural Essex). Also, apparently collective worship features in the national curriculum (please correct me if wrong) so they may be exposed to it anyway - I'd rather unteach them bits at home or discuss it than shelter them from it, the education bit comes first.