Page 3 | Children should be seen and not heard?

Pinkpinot · 2013-10-25T17:22:24+00:00

Is this just an old fashioned outdated sentiment My mil has just said it to my ds Really fucked me off

Original poster

Pinkpinot · 25/10/2013 23:26

I'm a bit reticent to explain that grandmas being rude, in case he repeated that!
She really is a bit odd I find. She has very little tact and says a lot of thoughtless things. He'll say something he likes and she'll say she hates it.
She's a bit self important herself

OP posts:

DropYourSword · 25/10/2013 23:31

I see where you're coming from and it must be frustrating, but at the same time I really think it's not at all appropriate for children to correct adults. It's a respect thing.

Alisvolatpropiis · 25/10/2013 23:32

Oh no! I don't mean explicitly tell him she's rude! That would be a recipe for disaster

Just generally explain it, whilst also explaining sometimes telling said person they're rude won't help. Small children are perceptive and he'll probably pick up on it.

Maybe?

She does sound a bit of a pain.

Original poster

Pinkpinot · 25/10/2013 23:47

Well she's only got a couple more days, and dh back on Sunday so he can take over
I'll have a chat after she's gone, the whole household has been up in the air, so it's been tough
I really don't want to do this again

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Elderflowergranita · 25/10/2013 23:57

Well she does sound a bit of a nightmare, but I do find the idea of a child correcting an adult a bit 'off'.

Sometimes there are ways of explaining to children why we make allowances for some older people, but possibly your DS is a little young to take the nuances on board.

Really, really don't like children correcting adults, but am well aware this may make me U.

MidniteScribbler · 26/10/2013 00:08

She sounds like a fairly unpleasant person, but I do see a lot of children come to school with the impression that saying "excuse me" means that everyone must immediately stop their own conversation and give them undivided attention while they prattle on about something they watched on television that morning. It's important to teach social cues about when to join a conversation and when to wait. Teaching "Excuse me I need help please" is different to just "excuse me".

finncotta · 26/10/2013 03:40

I don't like "excuse me" much either. I taught my dcs to come and stand next to me if they needed to ask me something when I was talking to another adult. I usually put my hand on their arm to let them know that I know they are there and I'll be with them soon. However, if they keep coming for trivial things I will tell them to leave us alone for a while.

I wouldn't like my dcs telling another adult they are being rude, even if it's true. In these situations we talk about "things you feel like saying but which have to stay in your head". Sometimes they can say it to me later, sometimes they can't, e.g. if they hate the food I cooked.

I think your ds will get that in time OP. I was pretty sure my 3 had got the interrupting thing sorted, and now dd1 has the teen hormones in a big way and suddenly seems to think she is the most important person in the family. I am constantly having to pull her up on speaking over the top of her brother and sister. Sigh.....it's an important lesson though - I have a couple of adult friends who are terrible for interrupting and it's extremely annoying.

ForwardSheCried · 26/10/2013 06:58

Even my grandmother, who is now 94, gave up the idea of children being seen and not heard at least 50 years ago.

EugenesAxe · 26/10/2013 07:50

Haven't read all replies but my thoughts are:

To say that to his elder and a relative was impertinent.

The phrase IS outdated and a bit irrelevant here; he was speaking and she was being discourteous by interrupting - 'How dare you speak to me like that!' would have been more appropriate.

In my opinion children should show respect to their elders at all times and their responsible adults should fight their battles.

I think children have it tough really, because they deserve equal respect from adults, and yet I find a child speaking as an equal to (well you know; without due reverence - it's a fine line), or remonstrating with, an adult bratty behaviour. Obviously you need to teach children how to protect themselves and never lead them to believe that their rights are less important than adults, you just need to say that the best adults will treat them with respect but that if some don't (like your MIL) it's still inappropriate for the child to deliver the dressing down and they should take their complaints to their parents or teacher etc.

Sorry I wrote most of this last night and didn't finish so it's probably moved on now. FWIW, her behaviour would have pissed me off mightily, but I would still have had a word if it had been my DS.

Original poster

Pinkpinot · 26/10/2013 08:43

If she'd have said "how dare you speak to me like that" I would not have been able to hold my tongue
I think that's dreadful

I think I'm torn because basically he said what I have been wanting to scream at her
"Fgs, listen to him, listen to his silly funny stories. That's how you'll get to know him and his friends and the things that mean something to him
You aren't here for that long, and I don't actually know when you are going to see him again. Make the most of it, don't fucking interrupt him to tell a story about done one we've never met changing the store they shop in, really, you think that's important?"

Ds has a very innate sense of right and wrong and fairness, which I've found a bit unusual,so maybe that's why he was outspoken. He doesn't like it when people cheat or lie, or get away with things they shouldn't
Like I said, in an ideal world they'd all come out with tact/diplomacy/ manners etc, but that happens over time
I'm doing my best to teach him

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wishingchair · 26/10/2013 09:02

Only thing I'd add is that my dd (7) never stops talking. Like never. We've all learnt the dangers of interrupting though ... She just goes back to the start.

But we are teaching her she can't just talk non-stop. That's equally poor manners.

I know you find your son enchanting. I'm sure she loves him too. She just might not want to listen to him 24/7!!

Original poster

Pinkpinot · 26/10/2013 09:31

Well she's come downstairs and announced she is resting today
So I guess that means she's had enough of us and needs some quiet time!

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friday16 · 26/10/2013 10:04

In my opinion children should show respect to their elders at all times

At all times? All elders?

An opinion popular in, say, Irish Catholicism in the 1950s and 1960s. Of course, you must show respect to the minister. Remind me how that worked out, would you?

pixiepotter · 26/10/2013 10:17

.What to you , are charming funny stories, to others , will seem like non-stop childish prattle.By your own admission he is a chatterbox.
You cannot realistically expect no one else to speak when he fills every pause with non-stop drivel.
I don't get why you think it is Ok for him to cheek his gm but not his teachers.

Original poster

Pinkpinot · 26/10/2013 10:37

Pixie, why are you insisting on being mean?
He doesn't talk stop drivel at all
And of course I don't expect everyone else to shut up

And i don't think you are reading properly, I said she can talk, i didnt say he's a chatterbox, nowhere, and nowhere did I say it was ok to be cheeky to teachers, I said he's never been cheeky to teachers
Stop putting words in my mouth

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pixiepotter · 26/10/2013 11:10

Further up the thread I said that teachers will talk over him at school and he will be in trouble if he tries to coorect them! You then said he would never speak like that to his teachers.So why, I ask , is it ok to speak to his GM like that?
Sorry I know he is the centre of your universe, but really small children's incessant 'silly stories' and chat about Ben10 would bore anyone (but their doting mother's) glass eye to sleep.It sounds as though you have had a lot of trouble with him talking over people before, and by your own admission 'he can talk'.He needs to realise that (1)he can't talk non-stop , he has to let other people get a word in and (2) the wider world will not put him centre stage everytime he opens his mouth.
(3) some respect for his elders!

gobbin · 26/10/2013 11:18

Pink have you tried discussing all this with your MIL?
Don't be afraid to challenge her and explain your views. The world is different to when she brought children up.

DS also needs to have continued guidance on when/when not to challenge an adult though and what some people would find rude. He's young so won't understand just yet.

Original poster

Pinkpinot · 26/10/2013 11:36

No, I said SHE CAN TALK

Where did I say incessant stories?? Where did I say silly??

Yes pixie all of that is what I am trying to teach him
Can't you get that from my posts?

You said you didnt get how thought it was ok for him to talk like that to his teachers- i never said anything of the sort. i never said it was ok for him to talk to his grandmother like
that - putting his GM and his teachers in the same boat is not the same thing for me
I think within the family children should be listened to and allowed to say what they think and feel, obviously within reason, hopefully with some tact and not hurt anyone's feelings
For the record- I am uncomfortable with him saying that to an elder, I will discuss it with him, but to be fair, he did have a point, she is very rude, and I think it's to his credit that he has obviously taken on board what I have said

I don't believe that children should be seen and not heard
I very much believe that you should listen to them and try to see the world from their point of view.
If that's bad, then shoot me

OP posts:

killpeppa · 26/10/2013 11:38

YANBU!

I'd be bloody fuming!

ThePinkOcelot · 26/10/2013 11:40

I grew up with that and it's shit. I was adamant my children would not.

PresidentServalan · 26/10/2013 11:51

Should your DS really have corrected her though? I can understand that you are teaching him manners but it seems a bit rude of him to say that to her.

Original poster

Pinkpinot · 26/10/2013 12:12

Honestly- I think he should be pulled up on it as a lesson in tact, but not just because she is older or knows better or deserves respect
And I think she needs to earn respect and have a bit of patience with her only grandchild who she hasn't seen in 18 months

OP posts:

SharpLily · 26/10/2013 12:12

My father still applies this rule to me. I'm 38.

He also believes married women shouldn't work but instead be at home looking after their husbands and families (it's OK to be a nurse, primary school teacher or secretary before marriage but really, women should know their place), that women should never wear trousers and should defer to their husbands at all times. The 'children should be seen and not heard' dogma is equally unpleasant.

However I don't think that takes away from the fact that children should be polite. It seems Pink's son has yet to observe the finer nuances of polite behaviour, but that's pretty understandable at his age. Maybe work on making him secure in his own self-worth but introduce him to the concept of discretion being the better part of valour.

Having been brought up the old-fashioned way myself (don't interrupt, respect your elders, the adult is always right, basically), I have always found it difficult to be assertive even when I'm being trampled all over. It's this sort of attitude that leads children to feel they can't report or complain if they are genuinely being mistreated in some way.

Retroformica · 26/10/2013 12:26

When she interrupts him can you just continue listening to him and blank her saying 'one moment sorry. DS is talking'

Retroformica · 26/10/2013 12:27

I agree children adults should be polite