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Original poster

To be pretty uncomfortable with home circumcision

578 replies

EastofEast · 20/10/2013 20:31

We get on very well with our neighbours and are pretty close but I was a bit shocked today, one of those moments where you find you really have opposing views on something quite fundamental.

Neighbour has a (gorgeous) two week old boy. She knocked on the door earlier to return my car keys (went to get a new battery for hers in my car) and I mentioned her new ds was unsettled for the first time ever; joking maybe he wasn't the perfect baby after all. My baby is demanding much more vocal about her needs. She said it was because he was circumcised today. I must have looked a little put off, I don't agree with it at all, as she then said 'oh he's doing really well. We were lucky the doctor came to house to do this one, all the others had to go to a clinic'. I was stunned, I'm amazed you're allowed to do such a thing at home in such an unregulated way. Frankly I wouldn't allow any deliberate harm to come to a child that wasn't medically necessary, but considering some people do do it I thought the rules would be tighter. We're both from (different) backgrounds which circumcise, although I refused to change my son, and I knew she'd do it after a related chat about whether fgm was that bad over a coffee one day but it's still upset me a bit the way it's done. The poor little thing is grumpy with loads of adults around to celebrate the event passing him round and round at 8.30pm.

I know the circumcision vs no circumcision has been done already, and not everyone shares my strong views, but at home? Should this be ok? I can't think of other similar procedures happening in a similar environment.

OP posts:
madoldbird · 23/10/2013 10:45

Worra I was only talking about the culture I had personally experienced. FGM is not practiced there. My opinions were based on what I had seen of particular practices in a particular culture.

Sallyingforth · 23/10/2013 10:55

I think you weaken the whole argument against FGM when you equate it to male circumcision.

It's very twisted logic to try and use FGM as an excuse to justify MGM.

FGM is more severe of course, but that doesn't excuse MGM in any way. Both are involuntary mutilation of a child's genitals and should be banned.

peacefuloptimist · 23/10/2013 11:09

I dont need to excuse or justify male circumcision. There is nothing wrong with it. I think others have done a very good job of explaining the health benefits of male circumcision. I dont really give a shiny what some random strangers opinion is about the reason I do something especially when their opinion is based just on the fact that in their culture its not the done thing. Ear piercing of baby girls is treated with similar hysteria for causing the baby a second of pain (like a vaccination) and because you dont have consent (like male circumcision) despite the fact that even though it is completely reversible. It seems more like you have a problem with it because you dont do it not because there is something inherently wrong with male circumcision or piercing baby girls ears.

curlew · 23/10/2013 11:13

You do know, don't you, that one of the reasons circumcision was common in Britain was because it was thought to stop masturbation.

Oh, and there are no proven health benefits.

WorraLiberty · 23/10/2013 11:19

I dont really give a shiny what some random strangers opinion is about the reason I do something especially when their opinion is based just on the fact that in their culture its not the done thing.

Most of the reasons I've read here is because it's cruel and a violation of a baby's body.

Not because it just isn't the done thing.

peacefuloptimist · 23/10/2013 11:34

But when you scratch the surface thats what you find Worra.

I know someone who has had FGM. She has had lifelong sexual and reproductive health problems. My brother was circumcised as a baby under anesthetic. He is now a healthy, sexually active man in his 20s. He doesnt miss it or even think about it and has been living the life of riley. For you to portray him as some sort of victim equal or similar to that of the woman I know who has had fgm is insulting and obscene.

OrangeMochaFrappucino · 23/10/2013 11:35

I think there IS something inherently wrong with circumcision and infant ear piercing. I think they cause needless suffering. Ear piercing is certainly cosmetic, as stated above I think circumcision often is too. I think it would be more accurate to suggest that people accept it because it is part of their culture and they find it hard to argue against the weight of tradition rather than saying others object solely because it's not part of our culture.

thebody · 23/10/2013 11:44

no one has answered the simple question.

would any adult queue up to have their foreskin removed without anaesthetic?? answer n

thebody · 23/10/2013 11:45

answer none!!!

would adults queue up to have their foreskin removed with anaesthetic? probably none too.

DropYourSword · 23/10/2013 11:54

This thread has been incredibly useful to me. I'm not pregnant yet but am planning on trying soon. My DH is circumcised and things our future soon should be too. I'm literally swinging like a freaking pendulum between thinking it's barbaric mutilation and that it's actually a very simple procedure with hygiene and health benefits. I have no idea what I'm going to do with my currently hypotheticalson. Let's just hope I have a girl and then I won't have to make this decision.

WorraLiberty · 23/10/2013 11:59

Well of course he doesn't miss his foreskin peacefuloptimist

How could he when he wasn't afforded his basic human right to grow up with it still attached to his body? Confused

ElleBellySkellington · 23/10/2013 12:00

There is something inherently wrong with infant ear piercing. And non therapeutic circumcision in infants. And as I've said, if the health benefits were that unarguable it would be recommended practice. And it's not.

SamG76 · 23/10/2013 12:08

DropYourSword - up to you of course, but whatever you decide, it'll be in the interests of your son. A lot of this "victim" testimony sounds very dodgy to me. I suspect it's people who have issues with their parents anyway, and this is a another issue to beat them with. Obviously it's easier to blame this for one's poor sex life/ relationship issues/ general lack of wellbeing than to take responsibility onesself.

DropYourSword · 23/10/2013 12:09

But there have been posters on here Worra that have said some men DO miss their foreskin, and have written in forums about it.

IceBeing · 23/10/2013 12:14

How is it 'none of your business' that a baby you know is being hurt for no reason?

The press is currently FULL of stories about how people need to care more about the treatment of children not related to them...and that is a message I whole heartedly agree with.

DropYourSword · 23/10/2013 12:14

Sam, I was wondering if there was a possibility they may have other agendas too. I have not followed the links yet, so I really don't know, but as you say it could potentially be men who disliked their parents anyway and enjoy having another stick to beat them with.

I think it's very difficult to anticipate the future and what your own child would wish for. I guess I see it that I could be wrong either way...he could blame me for doing it, or blame me for NOT doing it.

This would not have been a consideration for me if I was with an uncircumcised partner. I also need to respect DHs opinion on our child.

OrangeMochaFrappucino · 23/10/2013 12:20

Drop I imagine that if you don't feel strongly that it should be done, you might find it hard to go through with when it comes to it - just based on how hard I found vaccinations on my baby though I strongly believed they were worth it. But you have plenty of time to weigh up your options and discuss with your DH if the situation arises. Good luck ttc!

DropYourSword · 23/10/2013 12:42

Thanks jelly Smile

Strumpetron · 23/10/2013 12:43

peacefuloptomist both are mutilation but one is necessary one isn't. The point you're trying to make is ridiculous at best. As a woman if you were attacked and someone chopped your boobs off you'd say you were multilated. If you had them removed because you had cancer it would be a different story.

peacefuloptimist · 23/10/2013 12:44

SOmething inherently wrong with piercing infants ears. My parents must be axe murderers to you lot Grin. I had my ears pierced as a baby. I think my parents did me a favour really as I dont even remember it. My younger sister on the otherhand who had them pierced at 11 remembers it all too well though she doesnt really recall the pain.

By the way thebody, I think the Kikuyu tribe in Kenya circumcise men as adults. They line up (in a queue) and have the foreskin cut off without anesthetic. Its supposed to be a sign of their coming of age or manlihood. SOmething like that but they are definitely well out of childhood when they get it done. Not that its relevant as most people are not condoning circumcising babies without using anesthetic.

HomeHelpMeGawd · 23/10/2013 12:47

OK, BOB, you now appear to be so cross that it's preventing you from reading properly.

I didn't take "issue with my statement that cutting bits of flesh off of adults would hurt". I don't know what you think I said that could make you think that, but whatever it is, it's not what I wrote. Not even close.

And, yes, I did give you examples of how it can be ok to inflict pain on another person for your own benefit and still act morally. I talked about defending yourself from someone assaulting you, for example. Rather than telling me to get someone to read that back to me, perhaps you'd like to explain why that is not a valid example of something that would be caught by your moral principle of "inflicting pain on someone else for your benefit is an atrocity".

If you were less cross, less cock-sure, and started addressing the things I say, not the things you would have liked me to say, it would make discussions more productive. At the moment, seems to me like you're in it for the righteous feeling of telling other people they're wrong and evil.

Strumpetron · 23/10/2013 12:50

And how bloody patronising and sexist of you to think men complaining have an agenda. What a disgusting attitude. It is their penis. A bit has been taken away. They are fully entitled to be angry.

DropYourSword · 23/10/2013 12:56

I actually worded it very carefully. I wondered if there was a possibility they potentially had an agenda. I was exploring that as an idea, not accusing every man that posted on there of being un-entitled to be angry.

FoxMulder · 23/10/2013 12:57

Ooh, I'm glad my parents didn't pierce my ears. I don't want my ears pierced! But at least with ears, they heal.

Thecatisatwat · 23/10/2013 13:45

Having read about the impaired immune systems of young babies and avoided giving my own honey, raw eggs, unpasteurised milk products etc, I'm buggered if I'd risk the potential infection caused by unnecessary procedures such as non-medical circumcision and ear-piercing (and who in their right mind leaves a small baby within reach of small sharp metal objects?).

And I'd be extremely suspicious of any health professional willing to carry these procedures out.