to think when Brits complain about immigrants not integrating

[redpipe]

or learning English, it's a bit of a pot, kettle, black scenario.

I just heard someone moaning about immigrants not integrating or learning English when I happen to know their parents actually live in Majorca in an ex pat community and don't speak Spanish.

I think the there are loads of Brits living abroad in countries that don't speak English who don't integrate, learn the language or mix much with locals.

AIBU to think that we are probably one of the worst nations for integrating when we emigrate and learning languages but the first to moan about people not integrating in the UK.

Incidentally it's interesting because there is a mainly Pakistani area near me which has recently had a massive influx of Roma. And I do mean a massive influx.

The asian families there are really not happy about it and don't like having people in the area who do things differently from them, particularly the tendency to hang around outdoors in large groups in public areas. And the tendency for fighting within those groups.

There's been large public meetings about these problems.

Just goes to show it's not necessarily just the English in England. Even people who aren't of English origin will object to outsiders coming in and not integrating and doing things differently.

Brits abroad? Drunken Brits etc. I even felt a slight undertone of disgust (at 'Brits') in op's post here

I think the Tuscans are probably a bit pissed off with the English, perhaps understandably .... But the English are not usually taking advantage of the Tuscan benefit system, or taking jobs of social housing.

I am so tired of hearing Eastern European voices, half of them are on benefits. What can you say to that?

Tuscans will be making a pretty penny from the brits! Convert nonnas old barn and sell it for a fortune!

My Kenyan Indian friends dad once said 'muslims have moved next door - there goes the neighbourhood...'

I have quite a few polish friends - and I find them increadibly honest and hard working. I don't know any on benefits.

I find the marble arch beggar gangs quite intimidating though. They camp out in groups all around the area, sleeping rough (eating rough, pooing rough) and have to be shooed from home and business front doors.

The difference is they pick and choose who gets to come in - getting only those with skills that are needed.

Oh, we do here. I have cousins married to non-Europeans, and they're not almost-British-if-you-ignore-the-accent (i.e. American, Canadian, Australian, New Zealander), but African - can't get visas even when a spouse, married to a British woman, working in a profession (not rich by our standards, but certainly not on the breadline, either), intending to go back home after an extended visit. They really don't let just anyone in here, at least legally.

Not sure about British expats, but based on English families I knew living in Scotland and the USA, I would agree. English parents seem to tell their children not to lose their accents and reinforce this strongly as so many children of English parents I knew retained their parents' accents and pronunciation despite having grown up in Scotland / the US. I find that very odd and almost hostile to the local environment as they're going out of their way not to blend in.

It does annoy me too here in the US when I meet people from my home country who just live in their own ghettoes and never befriend or get to know Americans. I just think, why bother living here at all?

Lots of people move countries for economic opportunities of course but you would think they would try to aim for a country that they have some cultural affinity with so they'll be happy to integrate.

I like most aspects of American culture and have no problems integrating. I would not, on the other hand, feel at home in a country like Saudi Arabia due to their different cultural values so I would never choose to live there, regardless of what economic opportunities there might be.

I have heard the word 'Brit' used in a very derogatory and offensive and even racist way, many, many times in many places.
While growing up, I lived in another country for a few years. I was called a 'dirty Brit' daily, sometimes while being spat on and/or kicked.
Sometimes this same thing happened to me even in the U.K.

I lived in expat communities abroad for my first 18 years. British people are notoriously shit at integrating IME.

I have lived in Germany for 30 years and speak perfect German and my DCs went to school locally, I'm married to a German and as integrated as they come. But, do you know what? Sometimes I really like to sit and drink tetley tea, eat digestives, listen to the Archers and speak English with other English people because they 'get' me in a way that is entirely different to how my German friends get me. If you saw me on a day when I'm doing that you'd doubtless be tutting and sucking your teeth about my failure to integrate.

Do you live in an area with a high number of immigrants who dont speak english?

The pattern of immigration -> integration is pretty similar for all immigrants over the centuries. At first they tend to live with others of the same origins, for mutual support and comfort. The next generation tend to grow up bi-lingual, and be the interface between the immigrants and the country they live in. The 2nd generation tend to have the 'new' country's language as their mother-tongue, and move further from the self-imposed ghetto.

So it's a bit naive to complain bitterly about failure to integrate without giving the communities time to do so.

It is very difficult for an adult to master living in a new country. For all you know, they may have made a huge effort to learn English, say, but are afraid to use it for fear if being mocked when they do. I don't think it's directly comparable to an Emglish-speaker trying to speak another language.

Perhaps it's because I'm a 1st generation immigrant, but I love the diversity that immigration brings. Yes, immigrants should attorney to integrate into their new country, but equally they should be able to retain their source identity. The English language is the most marvellous melting-pot of languages. Where would we be if we had not absorbed, integrated and adopted other languages and usages?

My son lives in Turkey. He went not knowing a word of Turkish now he is completely fluent. His wife and her sister speak fluent English though they do not want to live here. They are all graduates and able to apply the skills of learning a language. It isn't so easy especially for older people who have often been 'brought' here rather than chosen.
Learning a language needs a real will and desire to learn.

I have a lot of sympathy with immigrants who struggle to learn English. It's so very hard to learn a new language as an adult, especially one which may be linguistically a long way from your mother tongue.

I've lived abroad for 6 years and despite being fairly well educated, having access to lots of resources (although not actual lessons) and having reached the point of mostly being fairly fluent there are still days when I can't string two sentences together, there are still times when I don't fully understand the messages from the DCs teachers and there are still times when all I want to do it sit down and chat to someone in English.

Functioning in another language all the time is exhausting and at times demoralising. I'm not saying that immigrants shouldn't make an effort, just that it might be more of an effort than some people appreciate.

BTW - I do not particularly appreciate being called a 'Brit' and having sweeping generalisations made about me.
Just think if someone did this with any other national group the OP and her ilk would be whining about 'racism'.

ginslinger, I am in the opposite position to you (German, lived in the UK for 20 year, married to a Brit) and like you consider myself as integrated as they come.
I still 'import' Caro Caffee from home, make my own bread because I never got used to what goes for 'bread' in the UK , my Christmas decorations are German etc etc. I think of those things as mere 'embellishments' to what is otherwise a very British life as I am sure your life will look v German from the outside.

I marvel at people coming from the other side of the world, from totally different cultures/religions/languages/history and even managing AT ALL to get on with things here when I still, having come from another Western European country, come up against things I find 'strange' after all these years living here.

thanksamillion, I v much agree with your here: I'm not saying that immigrants shouldn't make an effort, just that it might be more of an effort than some people appreciate.

please could people stop using the word 'BRIT' it is offensive. Thanks.

I crossposted with you, Burberry. My DH will describe himself as a Brit, but I can stop using it, no bother.

yes do please, many people find it offensive.

DH and I are from NZ. His parents are from the midlands and 30 years on, they still mingle with mainly British expats. That says it all really.

You don't need to have a language barrier to find it easier to be friends with people that shares a common culture with you.

I don't think people appreciates how hard it is to be an immigrant until they become one themselves.

Being an immigrant is really really hard, perhaps people do not realise that.

I have met some right ignorant English people down in Spain who are almost proud of their refusal to learn the language, in their horrid little enclaves, on the other hand I met others who spoke brilliant Spanish and were reading Cervantes in the original.....and with lots of Spanish friends.

Sadly as with everything it is the 'bad' that gets noticed and commented on not the 'good'.

OneLittleToddleTerror - exactly - I think that until you've had to do it, you don't realise the problems.

People have trouble making new friends just moving to a different town - now imagine moving country, not speaking the language (although even if you do the same applies), being obviously foreign, moving to a place where everyone who's from there already has friends and family. Of course you end up socializing with the other people like you (ie expats - be they from your country or some other).

I absolutely don't blame temporary migrants for living like that, or even permanent migrants - I think what's inexcusable is permanent migrants restricting their children.