To be fucked off that parents not vaccinating their child is risking my childs life?

[TheGlovesAreOrf]

I never judged them before. I never cared, if they chose not to vaccinate their child I always thought it was their choice and its not for me to have an opinion.
I never used to give it much more thought that that. I vaccinate mu children and what others do with theirs is none of my business.

Until I have a child who's immune system is often (but not always, steroid use) compramised. He is more likely to pick up bugs, and not deal with them very well.

He is also allergic to many things. I know tha egg allergy isnt usually an issue, but the MMR is cultivated on egg albumin. He is allergic to egg (anaphylactic) chicken meat, and feathers. The whole caboodle. Im pretty sure his tiny body wont like egg albumin either.

He's due to have this vaccine very very soon in hospital and Im absolutely shitting myself. Every time I remember it my stomach drops and my heart races.

Im genuinely thinking, what if he dies?

I cant get the vaccines done individually because the private clinics wont touch me with a barge pole.

I cant risk leaving it (Ive left it 18 months so far) because the area I live in has a very low MMR rate.

And that really, really angers me. Probably irrationally so.

I should be able to leave it. My son should be protected by societies use of the MMR.

Instead I either have to risk him getting an illness, or risk giving him this injection.

As if he hasnt been enough already.

I know IABU, but I just feel very resentful and angry towards those who choose not to vaccine right now.

More than prepared to be flamed for this.

But some children do get very very sick and thats why herd immunity is so important, and why I think that the CP vaccine should be made available on the NHS.

I held my DD through the night with her chicken pox (which exDH had at the same time and was poorly but not very ill with), and the fear of whether each breath she took would be her last was like nothing I could ever describe. I am actually tearing up thinking about it.

But, other parents make their choice and we have to deal with that as best we can.

Yanbu - totally agree. Of course there are risks with vaccines but why is my child more precious than anyone else's (ie wouldn't it be wonderful if we could all rely on herd immunity!!!) - of course immune compromised children / children with egg allergies should be able to rely on herd immunity. I agree those who don't vaccine are selfish - and I think that schools should be able to add vaccination criteria into admissions policies etc. But suspect that not everyone shares my views.

"Of course there are risks with vaccines but why is my child more precious than anyone else's"

Your child is not more precious to you than a stranger's?

Just when you start thinking you've seen everything on MN...

I'm sure there would be a better uptake if separate vaccines were allowed. Our DSs had separate vaccines for measles. Both had mumps before they were due for the jabs and they are boys so don't need the rubella vaccine.

Morgause

Boys were not offered rubella back when this vaccine was introduced. This was because the rubella risk is to the developing foetus so only girls were immunised. Unimmunised boys or anyone who has not been vaccinated, and who have rubella can infect unimmunised females of any age. Just in case you want to revise your information. Hope that makes sense I am off to bed.

Just a total counter experience and not to take away from any others experiences here - my Ma didn't vaccinate any of us (70s - 80s) and I had chicken pox, mumps, and measles (did get a rubella vaccine at 13 at school). Didn't have a permanent impact on me and she took us to virus parties in school holidays in order to get the disease in a mild form when we were otherwise well in order to build our immunity. Whilst I am not sure whether I'd do the same with my own, there were no long lasting impacts for me or my three siblings.

80smum they can hit children badly too. Had mumps in the 70's when I was 4. Like your mum, I had encephalitis and nearly died.

YANBU. You're really not. I'm sorry you're in this predicament Gloves, thinking of you and your DS. There should be better provisions in place for all children regarding vaccinations, there will never be agreement as far as the vaccine debate goes but actually, the OP is right, in principal.

Argh principle obviously

YANBU to be pissed off by this situation.

There was an immune-compromised child in DDs primary school; the HT sent us a letter asking us to check that our children were up to date with their vaccinations and to stay off school if exposed to chickenpox. Seemed entirely sensible, I didn't hear anyone complain about it.

The ethics become clearer when the child who needs herd protection is a known individual, perhaps.

YANBU.

We are LUCKY to have these vaccines.

Agree with pps that the point of herd immunity is to protect vulnerable kids like the op s. but due to free choice, herd immunity isn't always available.

Pretty much everyone who has strong views on vax had personal reasons for having them so I'm gonna Wade in with mine. Wasn't going to but whoever said that mothers encouraged children to get measles in the 60s gave me the rage. I know for a fact that my mother didn't deliberately infect her baby with measles but she contracted it just the same. And died. That was in 1970. That's my sister lost to a preventable disease, so I'm pro vax.

Currently I have a boy who's being assessed for autism. I don't believe the Wakefield crap but in my darker moments, I do wonder if I did this to him. Then I remember that he is here and she is not and I don't care any more. I made the right choice.

My fully emotive, fully biased take on measles and why we should protect those who can't be vaxed.

blissx I'm so sorry for your loss

Cote: ""The rest of our children should be vaccinated in order to protect that minority"

That is an ethically indefensible position: Arguing that a tiny baby should take a risk (albeit very small) for the sake of someone else.

You have artistically left out of your quote the bit where I pointed out that they should be vaccinated also to protect themselves. Why would that be, I wonder?

And my post made it clear that it should be those children who are not at risk from vaccination who should be vaccinated. Yes, there is still a tiny risk of their being harmed by the vaccine, but it is still smaller than the risk involved in catching the diseases in question. Life is all about balancing risk. Every time someone puts their tiny baby in the car to go and visit the relatives they are subjecting that baby to risk, but no-one suggests that the relatives must go without that visit.

Not unreasonable- I honestly believe you should have a medical exemption signed by a doctor in order to avoid vaccinations for your kids. Either don't let them start school or stop child benefit. I nearly died as a baby from a reaction to the MMR when it had first come in (showing my age!) so I never got the boosters at school on medical advice, but I was vaccinated for everything else, and I had to have an mmr booster recently to live abroad with the army or they wouldn't let me go. Every child who can needs to be vaccinated so kids like yours can avoid it.

I absolutely sympathise with you OP. What a heartbreaking position to be in. Would it be possible to get your DC immunised overseas somehow?

I live in the US (but British). There are a few crazy theories on this thread re vaccination here that I'd like to clear up.

Yes, generally, children do have to be vaccinated before they start any form of state education, childcare, daycare etc. Personally, I think this is a good thing (and you can obviously be exempted due to medical history). However, it's extremely hard to generalise as each state has its own rules and it's generally hard to find private schools that won't obey state laws.

PrimalLass - I agree, some of the American politics stuff is crazy, and don't get me started on the guns! However, to compare that issue with immunisation is just ridiculous.

PrimalLass - I agree, some of the American politics stuff is crazy, and don't get me started on the guns! However, to compare that issue with immunisation is just ridiculous.

It isn't ridiculous to me because it removes one set of civil liberties from parents while upholding one that is far more dangerous.

YANBU and I wish we did have compulsory vaccination here for exactly this sort of reason.

You can argue that America displays some contrary attitudes to personal freedom, if you like, but that does not mean that one element of that - ie an insistence on vaccination - is necessarily wrong. Arguably it would support the idea that we should do the same on vaccination because then we would have the benefit of full herd immunity without the crazy gun stuff.

I honestly believe you should have a medical exemption signed by a doctor in order to avoid vaccinations for your kids.

But you only have to try and get your child assessed or helped witha condition that your GP doesnt have experience with to know how hard that can be! It can take years to get a firm diagnosis of ASD if your child doesnt display the "classic" characteristics, you only have the read the SN boards on MN to see that.

Getting a GP to agree to sign an exemption, or refer to a medical committee that could make such decisions, would by almost impossible with some GPs. And lets not forget that the reason such rules are in place in the US is not to protect the children, but to protect the institution involved from litigation if a child caught measles (say) and then was very ill or passed away as a result.

My eldest DD would pass such an assessment, but my younger children wouldnt. Am I BU to have not had my youngest immunised after the violent reaction she had and the very bad reactions the other had? I dont think so, but the "medical exemption board" would.

Same as the poster on pg1, the US does not make immunisation compulsory to go to school. you are able to opt out and sign a declaration to that effect.

YANBU, and good luck with the vaccinations.

Lack of herd immunity is why my sister is terrified of taking my CF nephew to playgroups let alone school in her trendy London suburb, and why my friend's baby DD died of organ failure following a visit from an unvaccinated toddler with whooping cough.

People discuss vaccinations as though it is a personal decision, but it is in fact one they are making on behalf of other people - their child, and also the people their child comes into contact with, particularly the vulnerable elderly, young and immune suppressed. Perhaps we need a public education campaign not just on the vaccines but on the severity of the diseases they prevent - children in iron lungs from polio, in intensive care wards with measles, young men who will never have children following mumps and mothers who have lost children to rubella. I have a science background, and normally deal in facts, buy the pictures of my friend's daughter with wires all over her tiny body as she tried and failed to battle pneumonia after pertussis were the most convincing vaccination message that I have ever received.

Bobby Hill was three months old when he went into an iron lung.

I just sobbed my heart out at this photo.

This is what immunisations have prevented happening to our children, this is why vaccination is not just about your child.

I live in the US. I've worked in education in several states. In each of these you could sign a waiver to avoid immunization. Doing so is so popular, in fact, that we're having a resurgence of certain illnesses. The chicken pox is still very common here, and not newsworthy in any region I've lived in.

It's such a first world fucking problem this isn't it? Do we vaccinate or not? Wa wa wa.

ALL healthy children should be immunised because children like the one on the OP need it to happen. As do the rest of us, especially the vulnerable. Over privileged parents putting everyone else at risk. It's irresponsible at best.

And what about flu? This year all 2 & 3 year olds will be called for this. Flu vaccination is notoriously ineffective, could predispose people to catching other flu strains in future years, and never reaches herd immunity levels. It's easy to see why healthcare professionals avoid it even when they are pressured to do it by their employers. I have never had flu, neither has my husband or any member if my immediate family. So is everyone happy to get their DToddlers done?

*of