to think this is very disruptive??

[macdoodle]

I probably am being unreasonable and am prepared to hear it.
My DD1 has just started secondary school, she is in the "more able class" (this is what its called by the school ).
In this class, of about 20 odd, there is a boy with SN. He has an assistant for every lesson, and from what my DD tells me I guess he must have some form of autism.
But every single day, she is coming home with stories of what "X" has done. Thinks like having tantrum, which takes 20mins to calm down disrupting the lesson, shouting at the teacher, grabbing or hitting another child (and once a teacher), throwing all his books and stuff on the floor (numerous occasions), storming out of lessons etc etc.
Now the kids all seem to think this is hysterical (and great fun that almost every lesson is disrupted by "X"), but every day I am a bit , it just sounds very disruptive, and DD is starting to sound more annoyed than thinking its funny.
She does however say that is is clearly very bright indeed.
I know he has just as much right to be taught, but at the cost of disrupting a whole class of children? AIBU?? I can't quite decide TBH, and so far it doesnt appear to be affecting DD1's abilities, but we are only a term in.

Every child needs to have their education tailored to their needs so far as possible within an education system. It is not clear to me, from the OP, that is happening for either the student in question or the rest of the class. A child having tantrums in the middle of a classroom is obviously not having his needs met but neither are the rest of the students. Perhaps it would be beneficial when the outbursts are taking place that the child is taken else where and returned to the class when things have calmed down.

I have yet to meet anyone who can study in a really disruptive environment so those suggesting the others need to get on with it are being completely unreasonable IMO. OP I definitly would support the school in attempting to put this child into a class matching his academic abilities but I would definitely ask them to come up with a more appropriate strategy for deling with these outbursts.

Strumpetron

No, she would feel perfectly comfortable telling me if there was a serious incident, if she was struggling because of the situation or if she were directly affected because that's different.

If a child is settling, obviously struggling and there is disruption then just cataloging it ll the time would, to me, be gossipy. Because what is the point other than 'OMG - guess what he did today!'

She talks to me about everything and I find her perspective interesting. But it is just the daily detailing of a child struggling. I think she is kinder than that. If she isn't, she should be.

There's a huge difference between saying that "people with disabilities shouldn't be allowed out, incase they take up a place on the bus that means they have to fold down their buggy, or make too much noise in a restaurant" and expressing justified concern that a child's education is being disrupted. SN shouldn't really be an issue here. If you are concerned about the behaviour of another child, bring it up with the school and let them deal with it - or are some of the holier than thou on here trying to suggest that because a child has special needs he/she is 'above the law'? Of course the child in question has the right to an appropriate education, but don't the other children too? Should his rights be put above or below those of the other 19 children? Ignore the special needs bit, OP, just gently inform the school that you've heard a lot about class disruption. It's not the OP's place to find a solution, only to seek the best possible education for her child.

Indeed, but I find her attitude insulting.

YANBU. All children have the right to an environment which is conducive to learning. A regularly disruptive environment is not going to be as good for learning as a settled environment. Obviously the other students will try and ignore the regular interruptions, but it won't be the same level of concentration as well as in a peaceful, calm environment. Of course disruption impacts on the other students in the class, even though it's obviously not the fault of the student with SN. This student should be receiving better support from the school, so he can be fully included and involved in the class, as it sounds like he's not able to fully benefit from the classes ATM. And it sounds like some of the calming down would be better to take place outside the class until he's able to join in again.

I was a very shy child. Having another child biting or pinching me in class would have made me withdraw even more.

Coupon, in fairness to the school, sometimes trying to remove a child from a class can actually be even more disruptive.

This attitude really annoys me - who the hell has said any of the above in this thread

Not on this thread Celia, but on others. We have had 'People with SN shouldn't go to the Cinema' 'People with disabilities shouldn't be able to park in the P&T spaces if the Blue Badge ones are full.

I could go on, but its depressing.

Shade - Those threads are totally wrong. But nobody on here is saying that.

"Not on this thread Celia, but on others. We have had 'People with SN shouldn't go to the Cinema' 'People with disabilities shouldn't be able to park in the P&T spaces if the Blue Badge ones are full."

So the OP should get an ear bashing because this is what other people have said?

If OP had been that concerned surely she would have posted in Education rather than the most vocal board on MN?

I agree this is obviously a very sensitive issue but the OP wasn't insulting peoples children she was concerned with her own.

On the other hand, saying that keeping the autistic child in the classroom was solely down to "political correctness" isn't exactly supportive, is it?

I think you have been extremely unfair to the OP.

"People with SN shouldn't go to the Cinema' 'People with disabilities shouldn't be able to park in the P&T spaces if the Blue Badge ones are full."

Those are disgusting sentiments and should be shot down.

Entirely different to this though.

A child having tantrums
IT IS NOT A TANTRUM. IT IS NOT A TANTRUM. IT IS NOT A TANTRUM. IT IS NOT A TANTRUM.
Now, which bit of that don't you get?

People angrily posting about their own children with SN have little to do with your justifiable concern over your daughter.

^^this.

I don't think it's nasty, disablist or wrong for the OP to discuss that there appears to be a good amount of disruption in her DD class and to wonder what some solutions could be to improve the situation.

people aren't allowed to discuss these things then without being horrible bigots then?

I don't think YABU to discuss with the school whether things could be managed better OP.

Taking Alexa's advice would surely mean all the other children being taken out of school; which begs the question...what then? Start another school for all the students that were taken out of the class with the violent SEN kid?

Dawn - I saw Pag used the phrase autistic meltdown and I use that. 20 years ago when I worked with teenagers with severe disabilities, including autism, even trainers called it tantrums. Not everyone is up to date with the current language used.

You're right, it's not a tantrum. It would be helpful to give a more accurate and appropriate word, Dawn so posters don't offend.

(I'm being sincere and making a genuine suggestion, tone is hard to convey here. I'm not being arsey)

As someone who feels re. SN and their families lots of positive feelings (as i'm sure many accused posters, i feel really dismayed and disappointed at the intolerant and sweary response to OP's post. She is entitled to have concerns without being told to "suck it up b***", basically. really sad to see this on such an issue.

khaleese has it ever occurred to you that the children in your kid's class who have SN might also have positive characteristics and actually contribute to the class? i find it absolutely heartbreaking to hear that a child with SN is seen as a problem.

I have three children on the spectrum. We use the same as Pag it's an Autistic Meltdown. It's caused by a complete overload, noise, sensory issues, fear, light. Everybody, including everybody on the Autistic Spectrum is different, each person has different triggers. I strongly suspect the school are still trying to work out what this poor child's triggers are. Hopefully, somebody, somewhere is taking note so that the child concerned can get a decent and inclusive education. I have usually found there are one or two kids in the classroom situation who have found out before the staff what the triggers are, hence the meltdowns. Bet that's not being reported back to the parent concerned, sometimes because it's not obvious, and sometimes (particularly at 11 and 12) because it's not the overwhelmingly obvious thing to report.

Right, so this boy is being removed from class regularly? So he only gets access to education up to that point, then is removed and the rest of the class carry on with out him? I can't see that this is working for anyone - he's regularly missing out on large chunks of his education, the other DCs are regularly missing out on large parts of their education (although not as much, still really crap), the teachers are trying to teach through distruption and the boy in question is being left in a situation that's obviously stressing him out.

However, if some TAs cope better with helping him manage his issues than others, then this might be a problem that can be fixed with better training for the TA's who can't. (or could he be exclusively supported by the TAs who are good with him...)

I'd give it until after half term if there's no obvious improvement, then talk to the school about how they are going to manage covering the work your DD is missing in classes due to distruption. failing that, I'd ask her to be moved out of the 'more able' class, she might find being in a lower set with no distruptions is better for her. (Really, you can't fight for the boy to have the correct support, all you can do is focus on getting your DD the best education you can for her, it's shit if the school isn't able to support him fully, but not something you can alter, and I don't agree the best thing for your DD long term is to put up and shut up)