to think this is very disruptive??

[macdoodle]

I probably am being unreasonable and am prepared to hear it.
My DD1 has just started secondary school, she is in the "more able class" (this is what its called by the school ).
In this class, of about 20 odd, there is a boy with SN. He has an assistant for every lesson, and from what my DD tells me I guess he must have some form of autism.
But every single day, she is coming home with stories of what "X" has done. Thinks like having tantrum, which takes 20mins to calm down disrupting the lesson, shouting at the teacher, grabbing or hitting another child (and once a teacher), throwing all his books and stuff on the floor (numerous occasions), storming out of lessons etc etc.
Now the kids all seem to think this is hysterical (and great fun that almost every lesson is disrupted by "X"), but every day I am a bit , it just sounds very disruptive, and DD is starting to sound more annoyed than thinking its funny.
She does however say that is is clearly very bright indeed.
I know he has just as much right to be taught, but at the cost of disrupting a whole class of children? AIBU?? I can't quite decide TBH, and so far it doesnt appear to be affecting DD1's abilities, but we are only a term in.

I think part of it is that those that ARE accepting are simply quiet about it, obviously. They encourage their children to be friendly and supportive and acceptable and just get on with things. Those that aren't accepting are the ones that make the most noise and make things difficult for everyone.

OP i have to agree with you that it is unfair on awhole class to be disrupted by one pupil.

When i was in school, we had a girl with SEN and she was extremely disruptive, aggressive and most of our lessons were spent revolved aorund her tantrums.

We were told as her peers we were not to treat her any differently because she had SEN and to include her and be friends etc. Which of course nobody contested as this was a reasonable remark and she was/is a human being at the end of the day. But when she disrupted the lessons in the lead up to our GCSE'S, which to a 16 year old are very important and there is alot of stress and pressure put on, then i believe it was unfair that she was allowed to remain disrupting the lessons and taking teaching time away from the rest of the 20+ children.

She was never punished for her behaviour (i'm referring to the violent behaviour towards teachers and pupils, not just merely being noisy or distracting) or for not handing in homework etc, i think this was wrong. If children are to be taught to treat every body the same and fairly then surely the teachers should be setting this example. We were expected to sit there and allow five years of secondary education to be disrupted. I know we all need to learn to be tolerant and as adults will encounter other people with a mix of SN but surely there has to be a line where by the SEN child should be removed from the classroom to allow the other children to gain their education, they are just as important as that one child. If the other children were disruptive by 'chatting' they were sent from the classroom to stand outside the door until they learnt to be quiet, so it was ok to remove them from the classroom.

I think the OP has every right to be worried about her daughters education being disrupted for the sake of one child in the class. This is not saying her daughter is more important but she has as much a right to a good education than the SEN boy in her class who sounds to be consuming the teachers effforts and attention.

So to re-iterate a question asked multiple times on the thread,

What would you have done with the child that you describe in your post, Fluffington? Where do you believe she should have gone?

Can I also just say, as the parent of a disabled child, I find the words she was/is a human being at the end of the day. extremely upsetting and unnecessary, no-one should have to point that out!

Perfectly said Fluffingtons.

What Hazey said. Where should she have gone?

She should have been excluded.

Excluded to where? Even a child that is excluded is still entitled to an education.

Perhaps a pupil referal unit, but that would not be my concern. That is for the powers that be to decide!
Ultimately, my interest would be in the majority of the children receiving the education they are entitled to.

Serious question.

In an ideal world what would be the best case for educational options for SEN children?

I have 2 NT children and have no experience of SEN at all, I am writing to my MP on the strength of what I have read through on this thread but am still slightly unclear as to what people really want to see.

What I mean is, is there a "perfect" solution that could be striven for and if so, what would it be? (Even if that standard could never be achieved).

I understand from what I have read that there is a lot of red tape and struggle to get a "statement" (I have presumed this is the official acknowledgement needed for the LA to accept that a child has SEN); it would seem that mainstream education works for some (but support needs to be consistent, which it isn't now?). There are children who cannot cope with mainstream, so presumably special schools are the best for them? or better to have dedicated units attached to schools? or a mix?

If anyone could pass on their "perfect, in an ideal world" solution/idea I would be grateful - I am very conscious of not getting on my high horse with my MP without actually really understanding what is wanted/needed.

TIA

First of all, you don't know that she didn't have consequences. Just because she wasn't brought up on it in front of everyone doesn't mean nothing was done.

And to be honest if this behaviour continued for 5 years, I can't imagine the school was being very proactive about being supportive, were they? So basically, even though they're very obviously failing the student by not providing adequate support, you think it best for them to exclude her as well? So punishing her for their shortcomings.

Boggles the mind, really.

Those are few and far between and being excluded does not guarantee a placement in one.

Whistle, I'm presuming none of your children have additional needs. How would you feel in the future if this was your grandchild? Do you not think that if there was a better alternative that it would already be being implemented?

Yes, as i said i think the best soloution would be for her to be excluded.

What children with disabilities need is more support available in MS settings and more options available overall IMO. What the government needs to understand is that one size does not fit all. Every child is different - they have different needs and will flourish in different settings with different levels of support.

So it wouldn't be better for the school to have brought in outside agencies when the problems first became apparent and formulated a strategy to cope and also got that poor child some help with managing her behaviour then?

Just exclude her. She doesn't matter.

There but for the grace of god go I.

And there it is in a nutshell, not my concern and yet as many parents of disabled children have said on here, it is a constant fight to find the right support in the right place for their child, and in many many cases the right place is just not there.

Is there no society in your world, Whistle? No sense of protecting the vulnerable? Education for all? Basic human decency?

Sorry, I am not the world's most eloquent person, and I am not a campaigner, but I am the mother of a little boy with disabilities just starting his journey through the world of education, it is hard work and reading this thread and others like it fill me with fear. So I apologise if i am coming across badly, but it is hard to maintain a polite and un-sarcastic tone, when faced with this kind of, 'as long as I'm alright jack' attitude.

I think we all agree with that, Triggles.

But in the short term something has to be done now both for the child who is struggling and the other children in the class. The situation could be getting worse for all the children day by day.

To keep the child who is not coping in the class, as things are, is unfair to him - as it is to the other children and the teacher. Everyone is unhappy.

I spent a lot of my teaching career working with children with special needs in various environments and I would be very unhappy with the current situation from the child's point of view.

Long term there are several options but the situation needs dealing with in the short term.

I have plenty of emphathy. However it seems it only goes one way on here.
As i've said numerous times, the rights of one child, - and that is any one child does not and should not trump the rights of the majority. I understand many dont agree with that, but there it is.
I think you will find irl, as in outside this forum i am not at all in the minority in thinking this.
I will leave it at that, as from my point of view, there is no more to be said

not my concern is the flip-side of the This is my Child project. It suggests indifference to the needs of every child and a peculiar apathy.

The powers that be are likely those who will ask for your vote sometime soon. That is why some posters have read this thread and written to their MPs and starting to think about campaigning.

It is in the interests of each and every one of us, whether with have children with additional needs or not, to ensure that every child is properly supported and this clearly is not happening.

But in the short term something has to be done now both for the child who is struggling and the other children in the class. The situation could be getting worse for all the children day by day.

Something CAN be done now. The school could review the support situation and make changes based on the child's current needs. There could possibly be a dramatic change for the better.

But of course, they won't know unless they actually act.

So it doesn't matter to Whistle because it isn't her child. Lovely.

Will no one think of the poor NT children?

What do posters mean by "achieve their potential"?

Is that in terms of exam results or in terms of living an independent life and making a contribution to society?

I don't think exam results are as important as learning tolerance and cooperation - but this goes both ways. If a child with SN can't help being disruptive, what use are their exam certificates? Workplaces won't provide them with assistants and won't tolerate disruption.

Agreed, Triggles, I hope someone at the school is pressing for some kind of action and quickly.

I don't think exam results are as important as learning tolerance and cooperation - but this goes both ways. If a child with SN can't help being disruptive, what use are their exam certificates? Workplaces won't provide them with assistants and won't tolerate disruption.

I think we can all agree that not everyone works in an office. Therefore it stands to reason that someone that perhaps would struggle in a busy office environment might work in a different environment or have adaptations in their office.

what use are their exam certificates?

head...desk.... sigh

What roles would be suitable for someone who has frequent meltdowns?