to think this is very disruptive??

[macdoodle]

I probably am being unreasonable and am prepared to hear it.
My DD1 has just started secondary school, she is in the "more able class" (this is what its called by the school ).
In this class, of about 20 odd, there is a boy with SN. He has an assistant for every lesson, and from what my DD tells me I guess he must have some form of autism.
But every single day, she is coming home with stories of what "X" has done. Thinks like having tantrum, which takes 20mins to calm down disrupting the lesson, shouting at the teacher, grabbing or hitting another child (and once a teacher), throwing all his books and stuff on the floor (numerous occasions), storming out of lessons etc etc.
Now the kids all seem to think this is hysterical (and great fun that almost every lesson is disrupted by "X"), but every day I am a bit , it just sounds very disruptive, and DD is starting to sound more annoyed than thinking its funny.
She does however say that is is clearly very bright indeed.
I know he has just as much right to be taught, but at the cost of disrupting a whole class of children? AIBU?? I can't quite decide TBH, and so far it doesnt appear to be affecting DD1's abilities, but we are only a term in.

But they do. Many children do, whether it is by being bullies or by having inconvenient additional needs.

Life is like that. There are all kinds of people in this world and the best way to get on is to learn to live with and accept others.

The fact is there are not enough units and not enough specialist schools but all those children are entitled to an education. Some children with AEN don't even get to school. They can't cope and there is no other provision so their education just doesn't happen. Or what about the many parents who have their hands tied by the education welfare, who have school refusers who have to home educate, even though they aren't qualified?

I've taught my dd to be tolerant and to try to have some empathy. It would be a huge step forward if everyone did.

Nice one Oink.

MissBetsey I didn't "aim" the Stepford comment at anyone.

If you look at the post directly previous to mine, I was responding to roadwalker's comment of Is there a group of elite, perfect children who could have a pretty school all of their own

Loving the slipped in 'hard-working families'.

That should get their radar going.

Like the email Oink. Will copy.

For the hundred millionth time, let's look at the basic scenario:

Child with disabilities in classroom of NT children. Child often is disrupting classroom with loud and aggressive behaviour.

In many cases, the LA has refused assessment for the child. In those situations where the parents have fought for assessment, either the assessment has failed or the assessment has indicated the child needs support - usually far less than is actually needed.

So then, the child goes to school and the right support is not there. Or NO support is there.

Perhaps the child can do better with more support. How will we ever know when the government is slashing these budgets and the LAs are refusing to fund the extra support when needed?

Perhaps the child really cannot cope with MS and needs to be in a specialist environment. In many cases, the LA is not willing to pay for specialist schools if at all possible. The parents can be fighting for years to get the children out of MS and into SS. But until then, they STILL HAVE TO SEND THEIR CHILD TO MS SCHOOL, even if the support is bad. Even if the child would maybe do better at the SS. Because the LA often refuses placement at a specialist school.

Have just spent the last couple of hours reading the whole thread and have learned a lot.

I'll be cribbing from your email too oink; If there is an e-petition started too then I will obviously sign that as well.

I can't begin to imagine what life is like for many of the posters on this thread, and don't pretend to, but please know that you have opened my eyes to the (unseen) battles you face.

Triggle,

One other point that has been missed as well is that if you are bloody minded enough to take the how ever many years it takes to get SS placement for a disabled child then one day your going to find yourself in the daily fail (anonymised of course but identifiable to anybody who knows you) for the LA paying the fees for your child (happened to someone I know in the last couple of weeks)

Then the comments bit fills up with stuff like "shocking expense its not as if these kids will ever be productive tax payers"

actual comment I saw there NOT my viewpoint or me making a disablist remark

So even if a child who needs to be out of mainstream gets a SS placement they still are not safe from nasty vile people so its not just a case of nimby it can feel like a not anywhere.

Sock, I know someone who was featured in a national newspaper, highlighting her plight with her family as she fought for resources for her children. Some of the comments she got were vile. Some of the comments about her lovely children were also vile.

She did used to be on MN but I'm not sure she posts any more as the disablist comments got to her in the end. She has been called all kinds of disgusting names because she and her husband had to leave their well-paid jobs in order to help their children. These are educated, compassionate and excellent parents and it makes me absolutely mad that people are so hideous to them because they have chosen what is best for their children.

Can I just put a brick on DS1's head and stop him from needing to start school? :( I don't have thick enough skin for this shit.

Thank you oink

To any of those planning to email their MP, it would be interesting to see what sort of replies there are

Special agent, it can work. We have been very lucky over the past 6 years that it's worked as well as it has (DS has had one of those hen's-teeth-rare places in a unit attached to mainstream, for the whole of secondary).

Just at the minute DS can't cope with the thought of leaving school, so it's all come back rather to bite us on the bum, but you can't have everything...

Weirdly, I can fight like mad for DS1's needs but become thin-skinned and wimpy when dealing with the other school about DS2's minor misdemeanours.

Sock, it does seem to stir up so much resentment, doesn't it?

When DS first got his place at a secondary school miles from home, we had grumbles from parents whose children were going to the (well regarded) local secondary instead. One woman said quite aggressively, 'How did you bloody wangle that then?', but even friends who'd seen how much he struggled at primary seemed to think we had somehow pulled a fast one.

But the local school had quite openly said it would not meet his statement and had no intention of adapting to his needs.

Just read OP but will go read other posts afterwards, this resonated as it's very much like my eldest. he is bright- on the recent national reading test he scored 1 below the chart maximum so I suppose that's pretty indisputable- but also has ASD and needs an assistant. His tantrums aren't as common as some kids, but when he goes he goes. He doesn't need to though, he has a disposition that apparently unnerves other kids just by being there, I wish I didn't know what that meant but I do. He does have a TA in most lessons except art (his big talent and he just immerses himself in it).

DS1 is blessed: he attends a local school that has a Base from where he can access both a mainstream education and a support unit. We have a few locally, and so there is only need in the city for one old style 'special school'. Very few areas have that luxury, I meet in my wider ASD professional role so many kids who NEED that level of support (and it is cheaper, especially in terms of long term development) but will never get it. Even here there are only 5 places per year in the two ASD Bases, am currently hoping against hope that ds3 gets one for next year at the other unit.

The other kids? There is nowhere for them. Some end up at PRUs which are compeltely the wrong placement for those with SN and they are vulnerable and at risk around the kids the units are designed for. None get SNN Placements are they cost the LEA so much. Some end up in mainstream with help, a few end up completely out of education due to quite simply there being nowhere for them to go. That's a terrible waste, these children with HFA and AS level ASD are children who could achieve really well with proper support and achieve for them is a bonus for everyone else in terms of disability expenditure and commonly also MH budget coverage.

I REALLY want to see a massive expansion of Base provision, I know I am not alone as Andy Burnham backed that when he visited MN a few eyars ago. Otherwise you get a situation like the one we were in when DS1 was in a MS primary where LEA are saying he has to stay there and we as parents are being threatened and harassed for sending him there, and the kids placed at risk of disruption (or in Sam's case worse but he is unusually aggressive so please don't think all those with AS are; I have AS also, I am the least aggressive person you will ever meet).

YouTheCat I can think of 2 people that may have been, both friends of mine I know in RL. The way they have been treated is repulsive.

Monicalewinski

May I plant a big kiss right on your mouth?

That is fabulous

And actually I don't think it's unreasonable to worry: I have woried abbout vulnerable ds3 in his Base when other children with SN have caused him problems with bullying.

But never assume parents do not agree (if there is a TTA chances are they fought like buggery for that), and never assume there is anywhere else for them to go- level of the class in terms of academia is irrelevant those in less academic (non grammar?) schools need safety and a learning chance just as much.

When DS1 used to hurt other kids I would ask the parents to support me in my fight for more help, often by letter as we did use to get physical threats and II was too scared at one point to do pick up alone- justly scared, DH is quite hard to scare due to having a past career in the transport management industry which can be quite confrontational, and he was scared of this one parent too. II don't think any parent DID write the requested letter, although one dad did help by encouraging our MS son to befriend his MMS son the same age and helping him spend time outside the madhouse that is our home (3 with ASD, 1 not) and that's so appreciated that there are now words.

So my advice: talk to school, see if parents can be befriended (sometimes possible, sometimes not) because working together is a solution. Vote for whoever wants to build Bases in your area.

'All i ever wanted to say, is that one child whatever their particular circumstances or needs may be, does not have the right to disrupt lessons on a regular basis to the detriment of the majority of children.
I will continue to say that, and there are many more like me out there who think the same.'

You know in the ideal world I would agree.

But a child DOES have a right - a legal one- to an education, and quite simply there are often no other options for a particular child. The fact it is a school for bright kids (grammar?) is irrelevant, less bright children are no more deserving of disruption, and the selection is by aptitude not social ability.

I have no evidence for this so may be completely wrong but I would lay hard money (if I had any) that the same parents who wouldn't want 1 minute of time lost to a child with SN or who would immediately report a colleague who disrupted them are the same ones who think most people on ESA are scroungers and ATOS is fantastic, and that taxes are too high and should be cut and services slashed (even though SN provision is often the first thing lost).

Guesswork, but based on real life experiences.

WRT to the petition, be aware there are laws passed relevant to this that actually remove some parental rights (eg statements) so sadly, the war has already been lost. (I am in Wales so it's a bit different but heck, going same bloody way! Rhondda is even starting children a year later in education to save cash, hardly going to be any use on the SN stuff are they?)

It's also an across board issue: school placement is important but outside agency help can be the key as well. An issue we are struggling with right now is a suicidal 13 year old with AS who does not qualify for CAMHs (child's mental health) support as saying you wish to die is no longer enough, you have to specify HOW you will die to be seen. Other children are waiting years just to be assessed as there is nobody in place at all for teen / adult assessments and the waiting list for ADOS (an autism assessment) runs into years. Without a diagnosis, specialist places are generally refused.

It's a wide issue.

Thank you for writing that Peachy , taking the time, when you have so much on your plate. I am thinking hard about how all parents could work better together, to stop the threatening, reporting, demanding. And be more inclusive to each other to find better solutions for our children. Some people are lost cause wankers , not everyone I feel.