to think this is very disruptive??

[macdoodle]

I probably am being unreasonable and am prepared to hear it.
My DD1 has just started secondary school, she is in the "more able class" (this is what its called by the school ).
In this class, of about 20 odd, there is a boy with SN. He has an assistant for every lesson, and from what my DD tells me I guess he must have some form of autism.
But every single day, she is coming home with stories of what "X" has done. Thinks like having tantrum, which takes 20mins to calm down disrupting the lesson, shouting at the teacher, grabbing or hitting another child (and once a teacher), throwing all his books and stuff on the floor (numerous occasions), storming out of lessons etc etc.
Now the kids all seem to think this is hysterical (and great fun that almost every lesson is disrupted by "X"), but every day I am a bit , it just sounds very disruptive, and DD is starting to sound more annoyed than thinking its funny.
She does however say that is is clearly very bright indeed.
I know he has just as much right to be taught, but at the cost of disrupting a whole class of children? AIBU?? I can't quite decide TBH, and so far it doesnt appear to be affecting DD1's abilities, but we are only a term in.

Yes I agree her first post could have been worded better but she amended her stance in further posts. She was coming round to seeing your point of view.

I'm too tired to deal with this again.

Good luck with the fight people.

What I'm trying to say, is if worded correctly everybody can get their point across and perhaps PERSUADE people to agree with them. People will never get people to amend their point of view, by being aggressive.

This s a general point and not directed to anyone in particular.

I understand that provision is poor. However, i dont think anyone has addressed the fundamental point and it is this.
Why should the needs of one child trump those of the majority? When one child is taking up lesson time because of their behavior, are the rest of the class supposed to suck it up?
I really dont think so!

She's being unrealistic - mainly because she isn't LISTENING to people are telling her. His needs aren't being met. That means that either he needs more time to adjust or more support. Then if he still can't cope, he may need a different school setting. However... most LAs are NOT going to stump up for more support and certainly are NOT going to approve a SS without a massive fight - we're talking a good year minimum to get it through their red tape and then go to tribunal. MINIMUM a year.

Divide and conquer.

But, shew, WB said she had read the thread and all of these things about provision have been laid out in the thread, often by people who have shared very difficult stories about their experiences. Cat was understandably exasperated by this and responded.

oinkglitter posts

So, as the parent of no-one at all, here's what I've learned:

1. all children have the right to be educated in MS schools
2. some parents of kids with SNs appreciate their kids being in MS schools and reckon their kids thrive
3. other parents of kids with SNs know their kids aren't thriving but have to fight ridiculously hard to get them statemented/specialist provision
4. no one (or very few) really believe that 19 children having lessons seriously disrupted on an on-going basis by one kid with SN is really okay (esp as his needs are clearly not being met either).

So the solution must be;

1. Where kids with SNs are in MS schools, the school must be able to support them appropriately
2. Where the parents of a kid with SN believe their child's needs would be better met by specialist provision, that should be available.

ie the right to mainstream shouldn't come with a corresponding lack of other available options?

How do we make it happen? Seriously, how? There's loads of us. And clearly some really strong feelings. There must be someone out there who knows how to get something like this started?*

Surely this demonstrates that a lot of education has gone on in this thread.

I have certainly learnt a lot. I didn't realise that it was so hard to get the right help and there is so little choice. I knew it was difficult, but not how difficult.

Don't rise to the antagonistic posters. You are doing a good job to raise awareness but it defeats the object somewhat, when people only see the aggression and respond emotionally, rather than listen to your valid concerns. Yes some will never get it, but give up on those and concentrate on spreading the word about how hard it is for you - whilst acknowledging they have valid concerns too.

Why should the needs of one child trump those of the majority? When one child is taking up lesson time because of their behavior, are the rest of the class supposed to suck it up?

Do you REALLY want to know why?!?!?!! Because the stupid LAs refuse to pay for appropriate support for children in MS and refuse to pay for children who NEED to be in SSs to actually BE in SSs.

Clear enough for ya?

Shewhowines

While I genuinely think your intent is good and your reasoning sound, you do not understand , because you cannot (why should you) , just how relentless this 'battle'is for parents trying to get even basic support for their child with SN.

I have been here for about 8 years I think. I have been on threads like this literally a hundred times. I have posted reasonably, passionately, angrily, kindly, and every shade between.
It exhausting in the midst of a life where, when my son gets home from school it can take me 20 minutes simply to encourage him through the front door. Where people shout retard at him as I wave him off on his school bus. Where every night I wake up and the first thought is what on earth will happen to him when I die.

So whilst you see one 'set' of parents appearing exasperated and hostile pitted against another, the reality is actually a group of emotionally exhausted trying once again to make the disinterested and glib recognise that their share of this problem is minute and passing, while ours is a fight for tolerance and fairness which has been fought (at times seemingly pointlessly ) for years and will continue until we are too old or too weary.

This poster was preceded by a similar one a few weeks ago, and a few before that and a few before that, and a few hardy souls will be having the same discussion in a few weeks time with a new bunch who will make the same 'it's bad parenting/why is one child's needs paramount/why don't they go somewhere more suitable' points and then be indignant when posters are exasperated.

Few of those claiming to be educated and wishing those parents with chikdren with SN better support ever come back to add their weight when the next 'ADHD is made up/why should I invite the kid with asd to my party' threads appear.

The parents on here are not rude and unreasonable. They are exhausted and broken hearted. And it's unsurpring really.
I'm surprised they keep going.

I teach in a secondary school and I in no way resent spending time to support children with additional needs.

My school has two small form groups in each year for children whose additional needs mean they need extra support beyond a mainstream classroom and they are taught by fewer teachers and in fewer classrooms, with one TA per group in addition to TA provision for statemented pupils. We also have a learning support centre for children who need an even more supportive environment, and a behaviour support centre for those who need support with their behaviour to avoid isolation/exclusion.

I teach plenty of students with additional needs outwith this set-up and it can be a really enriching experience. Just last week on a trip my group were the only ones to manage to complete all of the sections of the work booklet (bad traffic on the way cut the trip short) because one of the boys I teach has ASD and it stresses him to have anything incomplete, so they other children worked extra hard to complete everything as a group so that he wouldn't get worked up.

When inclusion doesn't work it can be a nightmare for everyone concerned, but even more so for the child who is not having their needs met. The answer isn't to have a rant about these children with additional needs taking up all the time and resources (which is not true anyway). Perhaps these irate parents would like to think about these issues when they come to vote in 2015?

Flowers for Pag and Spikey. Wine for everyone else probably.

pag I agree that I can't possibly understand because I have never walked in your shoes, but you have done a good job. You've educated me and a lot of others who've agreed with you then left the thread to get on with our own "easy" lives. That's the cruel reality, but I and many others have been positively affected by threads like this.

I admit that when I first read this thread, the tone of some posters defending the needs of sn children, got my back up. I wasn't as sympathetic as I could have been, thinking yes but what about the other 29. It was only later in the thread as we got into a proper discussion without insults, that I realised I was incredibly misinformed.

I know it's tiring and you think what's the point but a response like

*Do you REALLY want to know why?!?!?!! Because the stupid LAs refuse to pay for appropriate support for children in MS and refuse to pay for children who NEED to be in SSs to actually BE in SSs.

Clear enough for ya?*

Would have put my back up. Yes I know you said it a thousand times but it still needs to be said nicely for it to have an impact.

Lots of us have been educated. Remember that and forget the ignorant ones, who would never agree if you argued until the cows come home.

Well said Pag ventures bank to thread.
I'd love some Oink

So, what happens to these children who apparently 'disturb' the education of other children like the OP's daughter but are unable to go to SS due to lack of provision? Oh yes, that's right, people like the OP don't give a flying fuck as long as their child is hunky dory.

Yes, I understand that shewhowines. And again I am explaining rather than arguing -
If the people who refuse to understand gain nothing from the discourse...
And the people who listen and gain some understanding wander off to their 'real' lives without a backward glance...
Why should anyone explain?
And why should they be polite. What does it actually gain them?

I'm not criticising people for having their child as a priority but I am when it's to the detriment of other children.

I also said people like the OP. She was not the only one who was out of order.
"My heart sunk when I saw my son has 2 children with SN in his class" anyone??

*Why should the needs of one child trump those of the majority? When one child is taking up lesson time because of their behavior, are the rest of the class supposed to suck it up?

Do you REALLY want to know why?!?!?!! Because the stupid LAs refuse to pay for appropriate support for children in MS and refuse to pay for children who NEED to be in SSs to actually BE in SSs.

Clear enough for ya?*

The first paragraph is great and educational, without the sarcasm at the end. An acknowledgment that it does indeed, suck for the others, would create a more " we're in this together, what a shit situation" feeling.

Sorry triggles I'm not picking on you

And I know you've all tried that and are frustrated and fed up. I'm just saying that it didn't help your case from my point of view originally.

and to all you parents who have it so tough. It must be shit to have to fight for your child's education and come across so much antagonism instead of compassion.