Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

to think this is very disruptive??

971 replies

macdoodle · 13/10/2013 15:52

I probably am being unreasonable and am prepared to hear it.
My DD1 has just started secondary school, she is in the "more able class" (this is what its called by the school Hmm).
In this class, of about 20 odd, there is a boy with SN. He has an assistant for every lesson, and from what my DD tells me I guess he must have some form of autism.
But every single day, she is coming home with stories of what "X" has done. Thinks like having tantrum, which takes 20mins to calm down disrupting the lesson, shouting at the teacher, grabbing or hitting another child (and once a teacher), throwing all his books and stuff on the floor (numerous occasions), storming out of lessons etc etc.
Now the kids all seem to think this is hysterical (and great fun that almost every lesson is disrupted by "X"), but every day I am a bit Hmm, it just sounds very disruptive, and DD is starting to sound more annoyed than thinking its funny.
She does however say that is is clearly very bright indeed.
I know he has just as much right to be taught, but at the cost of disrupting a whole class of children? AIBU?? I can't quite decide TBH, and so far it doesnt appear to be affecting DD1's abilities, but we are only a term in.

OP posts:
OneInEight · 14/10/2013 06:29

Have been putting off filling in the forms for secondary for my boys(AS). We have the following option:

Mainstream secondary which based on primary school performance we expect the boys to be excluded from within days due to violent behaviour - that's if we can even get them there in the first place (we have lots of school refusal)

A Behaviour Emotional Social Difficulties Secondary where they could come out with at most 3 GCSE's at low grades despite being already at level 6 in Maths and level 5 in Literacy.

Home schooling, however, last time we tried this ds2 retreated into his bedroom, refused to do any work or go out of the house . I have already been forced to give up my job due to school difficulties so at least I would be around to do this.

A specialist ASD school - the LEA have already refused this for primary - the annual fees are upwards of £50,000 even for the cheapest one so I think they are going to say no to this one as well.

These are the choices parents of AS children with challenging behaviour have. It is not easy
.

giraffesCantGoGuising · 14/10/2013 07:11

There have been some horrible threads about people with disabilities on MN - I don't think the op is an example of this. I think she is right in that the current set up is not working for anyone in that class. The boy deserves more support - I am unsure what would help so am just using he word support to encompass anything that might change to help him.

I wonder what training teachers get now in working with children with SN. 10 years ago when I did my teacher training we got none. That;s right NONE. I had to select additional support needs as an option - and only 12 of us did! Even then it was mainly dyslexia it focused on.

I think the system needs to change and allow for inclusion by providing better support and training. Without it everyone in classes like this are suffering - and by everyone I mean ALL pupils, it sounds extremely hard work for this boy, I hope he gets the help and support he needs.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 14/10/2013 07:23

Oh this has been one of the horrible threads too..due to comments by others, which have rightfully been removed for being disablist.

The OP wasnt directly but I still.maintain it wasn't a pleasant thread to start.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 14/10/2013 07:28

Which is why I vowed to step back a bit from MN..all these horrid threads..

So off to spend the school holidays with DD.

RedHelenB · 14/10/2013 07:32

OneiunEight - look at choice 2 - the fact that they are doing well academically may well mean that they will do so there too, Presumably it is smaller classes & more support?

Morgause · 14/10/2013 07:39

Sometimes the only way to get a lazy HT to accept there is a problem is when parents complain about the management of the behaviour of a particular child. I've known teachers who have had concerns about particular behaviour ignored by HTs who tell them to "manage".

But when parents begin to complain to the governors and the LEA and threaten to remove children HTs can't ignore it and it can kick start the process of getting adequate support.

It isn't disablist, imo, to have concerns that inadequately managed behaviour is impacting badly on other children in the class.

YouTheCat · 14/10/2013 07:42

I think what gets me about the OP is that she didn't see it as much of a problem until her dd stopped finding it funny - well, that's how it reads to me anyway.

roadwalker · 14/10/2013 07:43

I dont think the OP is wrong to bring up the issue of meeting all childrens needs
But, further down the thread she said that if her child were acting like that she would be addressing it
This is the part I find insulting. The boys parents have probably spent many years ' addressing ' his issues

marriedinwhiteisback · 14/10/2013 07:50
YouTheCat · 14/10/2013 08:03

I'd say this comes under workload. Paperwork involved in order to even begin to access appropriate provision is just mad for a start.

WandaDoff · 14/10/2013 08:09
Strumpetron · 14/10/2013 08:11

marriedinwhite I think they first deserve fair conditions before fighting for other causes, that really other people should be fighting for.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 14/10/2013 08:17

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

5madthings · 14/10/2013 08:24

other people? what other people? the parents of a child with sn's who are having to battle just to get their childs basic needs met?!!

actually it should be everyones battle, we as a society should look out for those who cannot fight this battle themselves.

redhelen i dont think its as simple as

Beautifulbabyboy · 14/10/2013 08:27

I am with OP, I would be massively concerned if my children's education was being disrupted by anything.

Lesson times and plans are set. If a significant period of time is spent dealing with one pupil then the lesson objective isn't met and the childrens' education will suffer. This isn't about learning about life, that happens from the moment you are born until you die, at school you need the best eductIon you can have so the next 50 years of your working life are not crap.

5madthings · 14/10/2013 08:27

posted to soon....

i was saying i dont think its as simple as choosing a school for sn pupils as you cant just choose them, the spaces are limited and placements a battle to get.

RedHelenB · 14/10/2013 08:53

5madthings - i was replying to oneineight about her options.

5madthings · 14/10/2013 08:56

yes i know and i also meant to add why should she have to consider a school that is not going to meet his needs, a school where he may only get three/four gcses when he is clearly an able child. he wont be able to get anymore gcses if they are simply not offered or taught in the school which is often the case.

marriedinwhiteisback · 14/10/2013 08:59

Laugh on fanjo and then start justifying why the potential of every child in the country should not be able to fulfil their potential. This is absoltely about every child - Every Child Matters - remember that. Every child is entitled to a properly funded system where they can learn and fulfil their potential. Every child is different (whether having a or a combination of protected characteristics) and one size does not fit all whether the children are neuro typical or otherwise.

zzzzz · 14/10/2013 08:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 14/10/2013 09:28

I'd never dispute that married.

Just think it's important we are all clear on the real reason you suddenly want teachers to campaign for better resources for supporting kids with additional needs.

In case anyone thinks you have gone all understanding..no..you just want them to shut up basically.

AmberLeaf · 14/10/2013 09:37

Every Child Matters - remember that. Every child is entitled to a properly funded system where they can learn and fulfil their potential

Except every child does NOT get what they are 'entitled' to.

Ours don't.

ouryve · 14/10/2013 09:48

This could be my DS you are describing, macdoodle. The only secondary special school options for him in this county don't even offer GCSEs. Unless I win my current quest for the LA to fund a £54000 place at an independent special school in another county were he won't simply be babysat and left to rot, where the hell am I supposed to send him?

AmberLeaf · 14/10/2013 10:02

I think the important point for parents of NT children to take from this thread, is that us parents of children with SNs simply don't get very much choice of where our children are educated.

Often it is a toss up between unsuitable school 1 or unsuitable school 2 and deal with the consequences.

ithaka · 14/10/2013 11:04

My DH works in an internationally renowned secondary school for young people with additional support needs. Inclusion is not always best for young people, regardless of their academic ability. DH's pupils go from very bright (advanced higher) to vocational life skills, what they all have in common is that mainstream education is not right for them.

It is an independent school, so about half of the pupils are self funded - fees are comparable to a really good private school, which I know from other threads many on MN can afford (we certainly couldn't).

The rest are funded by the local authority and here is the rub. The LA will always contest any recommendation to send a child there and uses good legal firms to fight their case. Which means the LA funded children either have incredibly clued up and combative parents who have fought like hell for their child, or the child's behaviour is so very extreme they have been excluded from every other school - this school can usually manage very extreme behaviour, there are enough trained and resources staff and facilities.

I think is is unreasonable to have a pop at the OP for being unhappy with the current situation, but sadly it appears her daughter and the boy in her class are the victim of the current restraints on public spending. This is the reality of the current government policy.

The school is expensive for the LA, but you could argue saves society a fortune in supporting all to achieve whatever potential they are capable of (including the OP's daughter & classmates, who shouldn't have to tolerate disruption to their education) and thus contribute more to society in the longer term.