to think this is very disruptive??

[macdoodle]

I probably am being unreasonable and am prepared to hear it.
My DD1 has just started secondary school, she is in the "more able class" (this is what its called by the school ).
In this class, of about 20 odd, there is a boy with SN. He has an assistant for every lesson, and from what my DD tells me I guess he must have some form of autism.
But every single day, she is coming home with stories of what "X" has done. Thinks like having tantrum, which takes 20mins to calm down disrupting the lesson, shouting at the teacher, grabbing or hitting another child (and once a teacher), throwing all his books and stuff on the floor (numerous occasions), storming out of lessons etc etc.
Now the kids all seem to think this is hysterical (and great fun that almost every lesson is disrupted by "X"), but every day I am a bit , it just sounds very disruptive, and DD is starting to sound more annoyed than thinking its funny.
She does however say that is is clearly very bright indeed.
I know he has just as much right to be taught, but at the cost of disrupting a whole class of children? AIBU?? I can't quite decide TBH, and so far it doesnt appear to be affecting DD1's abilities, but we are only a term in.

My DD has missed her whole year of Reception in mainstream and all of Yr1 so far. I refused to enroll DD into mainstream until the LEA provided the support for Aspergers Syndrome, Sensory Processing Disorder and Hypermobility that she CLEARLY needs to enable her to cope with school every day. I've spent the last 12 months fighting tooth and nail just to get DD assessed for a statement. Now we are going through that process and are looking for a mainstream school all we are hearing is "this isn't a suitable environment for your child". Every time I put the phone down to a school lately I weep.

However there is NO WAY she will get specialist provision until she fails, repeatedly in a mainstream placement. It's too expensive and places are few and far between. People I know have personal experience of this and the LEA have been direct in their views on that too.

Until then I home educate DD to the best of my basic ability, learning to teach 'on the job'. That isn't best for DD either because she is not receiving the academic learning that she craves but I can't face putting her into an environment where she will be labelled 'that child', where people start complaining to the staff about moving their children away from DD for whatever reason, where other kids take the mickey out of her because of her obvious facial tics and being the kid that never gets a party invite because she is 'wierd'. DD is just a small child who has no understanding of what awaits her in the real world. She is loved, she is beautiful and she makes no judgements on other people.

OP YANBU to be concerned about your DD's education but some of the posts in reply to this (and other threads in recent days) have reduced me to tears. My DD will always have these conditions but I won't always be here to help guide and protect her. I am not sure I can trust society to either guide and protect her.

Sorry if Im OT a bit....it's just all rather upsetting to read this.

Does anyone know if there is a campaign running? If not how do we go about setting this up? Let's not just 'talk' about it, we all agree that the system isn't working for the children so lets act!
I'm rubbish with this sort of thing and wouldn't know where to start but surly pulling together is a good place?
Anyone good at writing letters? If we write up a template for everyone to print of and sign and send would that be doable? Like I said, im not great at this kina stuff but things need changing and it's got to start somewhere so why don't WE start it?

I feel really awful, reading all this. I didn't realise it was so hard to have a child statemented.

Even once you get a statement it doesn't mean a child will actually get the provision they are supposed to :(

Sparkle, so sorry to read that about your DD. Young children don't tend to care about stuff like tics, although sadly some parents might.

It is incredibly difficult to get a statement
My DD has a full statement which means she has 1-1 assistance for the whole school day
She has this because she is violent, not all the time but she is unpredictable and the level of violence is scary
She has this to protect the other children not to help her develop
I want, and expect other children to be protected from her but if the environment were not so stressful then she may actually have a chance to develop
The children with SN but who are not a danger are worse off in some ways because they can be ignored

Yes it makes me think of one girl with autism I worked with. She would occasionally scream, but a lot of the time was in her own world and pretty quiet. It was my job to engage her and get her interested in different things. And when you did, she did engage. She could easily have been sat at the back of a class and totally ignored.

SparkleSoiree - a wonderful post that I sadly understand completely. It's awful, isn't it?

You are so right that you cannot always be there to protect and guide your DD. My sons are now adults and if anything it gets worse as society expects them to conform into a world that they cannot. However, I hope by home educating your DD you are giving her the love, strength and support that she needs, that you are protecting her NOW - which hopefully you can build on together. I wish you all the luck in the world.

One little word of warning though. I am now a foster carer working with difficult teenagers (perhaps teenagers are ALL difficult actually) and I know their individual one to one supports (much easier to get with a child in care) makes them stand out as different, meaning they are often bullied. I have only positive things to say about one to one support in the early years, but am recently struggling with the effectiveness of a one to one with my foster children.

Having been through the statementing process four times now, if I can help please contact me incase I can be of any help.

You sound a wonderful mum xx

I think there is an online petition that you can set up - maybe named number 10 downing st petition or something. If they get more than 400? people signing up then the government are obliged to respond. It maybe possible to link this thread?

It was a while ago that I signed one but I am sure someone could find out how to do it.

This is mostly for those who think "well, if the child with SNs can't cope, he needs to go into a specialist school." Let me just give you an example.. and this is not even an extreme example....

DS1 was in mainstream school for Reception and Year 1. Within 3 days of him starting Reception, I was called into the Senco's office and told there was a concern that he had special needs of some sort. I literally sat and cried with relief - we had been bringing up our concerns with the various GPs at our surgery for the last 2 years, only to be fobbed off repeatedly and told "oh children develop at different rates, blah blah."

Senco recommended we go to GP and get referral to paediatrician for assessment. In the meantime, school puts 1:1 with DS1 fulltime, out of their own budget (while applying for additional funding as well) because they felt he needed it. We were lucky. Not many schools will do that with no statement.

GP refused to refer to paed, as she stated that ASD and ADHD (our concerns) were "mental health issues" and referred us to CAMHS, who promptly fired back a letter to GP stating she was basically off her rocker as DS1 obviously needed to see a paed. We got a referral from the school nurse and DS1 finally saw a paed, who then referred him to other appropriate specialists (SALT, OT, PT, etc).

Anyway, school assisted us in applying for a statement. Again, we were lucky - our school was brilliantly proactive and bent over backwards to support DS1.

By the beginning of year 1, it was becoming clear that DS1 was not coping in MS school. He had sensory problems as well, and because he could not cope with the noise and movements, he had to leave the class up to 20+ times per day to calm down. Thankfully, the children were very tolerant of his needs and treated him very well. (Some of the parents, however, were a different story. )

We spent that entire year fighting with the LA to get him into a local specialist school that stated very clearly that they could meet his needs. He is very clever, on G&T lists, and the LA said no way could he go to specialist school as he was "too able." However, they claimed that he could cope with the MS classrooms, and when they sent a woman to the school to discuss it with myself and the Senco, the Senco recommended she view him in the classroom so she could see how much he struggled - the woman refused. She said "it's not part of my job to see him in class."

We had to appeal their refusal, prepare for tribunal. We had paperwork from literally EVERYONE that worked with DS1 (paed, OT, SALT, teacher, TAs, headteacher, Senco, etc) stating that he would do better at the specialist school and still the LA refused. They finally agreed on the very last day of school of Year 1, which of course meant DS1 wasn't able to go through a transition time to the new school (which was recommended by the paed, the specialist school, and his MS school).

He is 7yo and happy at the specialist school now. There is no way he could have dealt with junior school in MS.

Does this even clarify it a little?? We fought and fought, had the backing of literally everyone working closely with him, and STILL the LA refused and wanted him in MS even though everyone was telling them he couldn't cope with it. Do you have any idea what it's like to see your 6yo falling apart in front of you and not being able to do anything about it? We HAD to send him to school, knowing he couldn't cope, and being utterly thankful that at least his MS school was doing their best to minimise the damage to him.

And by the way... he is DISABLED, he is not a "special needs child." Just to clarify.

Really, you can't fight for the boy to have the correct support, all you can do is focus on getting your DD the best education you can for her, it's shit if the school isn't able to support him fully, but not something you can alter

But why?!?!?! WHY can't you fight for children to have the correct support? Doesn't that benefit everyone? I'd be thrilled to see parents saying "That's it, I'm talking to the school, obviously they need to support that child better." Rather than them blaming the child or the child's parents.

I will NEVER understand why people can't step up and demand better support for children when it's needed. I can guarantee you if more people did, it would probably make more of a difference. Parents of disabled children are often left to fight alone.

triggles its awful that pareymts are having to fight so hard for a basic right for their children :(

Re disabled/special needs, I would say a child with special needs or with a disability (I think I think of disability as more of a physical issue tho obviously autism etc can be just as disabling? Is that a word?). Earlier on this thread? A poster said it is not referred to as special need now, but as additional needs?

I dotn have children with any extra needs (tho there are issues with ds2, have seen camhs and are debating a re referral, add and odd have been suggested) anyway what I am trying to say is I a, not all that au fait with all the language etc but would hate to cause offense. So you would say your child has disabilities and would prefer others to use that language?

I frequently see see special needs on mnet, occasionally additional needs, I just dont want to be causing offense.

Trigglesx I understand fully the frustration and time consumption involved in the process you endured. We have numerous professional reports and STILL had to go to tribunal just to get assessed - even the panel there were a bit confused as to how it got that far. Not looking forward to the coming year or two, I KNOW we will end up going to tribunal again. You sound like a fab mum.

coldwinter and sweetmelissa Thank you.

5madthings no no, you're not causing offense. But I wanted to make a point.

I've been watching lately, and when "special needs" are mentioned, you can practically see some people doing an eye roll. It's starting to have distinctly negative connotations.

Many of these children that have special needs are actually disabled, and I have seen that there are less negative attitudes towards the idea of a child who is "disabled" as opposed to a child that has "special needs." I suspect part of it is the term "special" which some (myself included) find a bit wearing as many people utilise the word "special" in a derogatory fashion.

I have also come across people that dismiss "special needs" as simply behavioural problems, rather than understanding that behavioural problems are often just a symptom of special needs.

DS1 is actually disabled. So therefore I am trying to be clear in this. That's all, really.

Well not sure re camhs, last time their attitude was that we were coping with him and using appropriate strategies so they were happy just to leave us to get on with it...

He as just started at high school tho and its proving difficult. He is happy but organization, homework etc is a nightmare.

Thanks triggles and I agree there is def an attitude when special needs are mentioned and the word 'special' is used negatively, its something I have noticed on mnet and in RL :(

Sparkle exactly right. And that's why I was clear that we were very lucky. We had a very proactive MS primary school that went well out of their way and dug into their own budget to make sure he was supported as best they could. So many do not have even that. And so many have to fight much much longer than we did. I cannot imagine it - we were absolutely worn down, exhausted, and horrified by it all.

True Sunshine. I lost a fair few friends because I couldn't just change plans/come out/manage ds's behaviour outside (he can be a danger to himself and others). You do all the fighting and there isn't much left after that.

The paediatric doctor we saw with ds (between age 2 and 4), took 2 years to diagnose my non-verbal, no eye contact ds with 'mild autism'

He's 18 now and is still non-verbal. She told us he'd speak when he was ready. Still waiting.

Hope it goes well, 5mad.

At age 13 he went to a specialist assessment centre where he stayed during the week for 6 weeks.

The experts there diagnosed ds as one of the most complex cases of autism they had witnessed. Even their very well trained staff struggled.

I speak from the POV of a parent with a child with autism.

YANBU. It is not fair for this boy or the other children to be educated in this setting which seems to be very distressing for him.

Sadly many parents with autistic children struggle to get them a place in an appropriate school which is fully equipped to deal with their anxieties/fears due to lack of funding. It is cheaper for the government to keep them in mainstream with an assistant (who are often not specialized in dealing with behavioural issues)

I am a professional specialising in working with children on the spectrum at school. I would be very concerned that this boy is so continually distressed. It is not ok for people with autism to be put in a position where they are having meltdowns on a daily basis. Clearly something or many things about the structure of the class, the lessons and the way he is being taught are very wrong for him. I would expect the SENCO to involve a psychologist or behaviour specialist to look in depth at what the causes are for his distress and to address them immediately. It shouldn't have to be like this. You can't just chuck a person with ASD into a mainstream class without making all the modifications that they need to make it a safe environment for them. A series of learning support assistants is not the answer.