to think this is very disruptive??

[macdoodle]

I probably am being unreasonable and am prepared to hear it.
My DD1 has just started secondary school, she is in the "more able class" (this is what its called by the school ).
In this class, of about 20 odd, there is a boy with SN. He has an assistant for every lesson, and from what my DD tells me I guess he must have some form of autism.
But every single day, she is coming home with stories of what "X" has done. Thinks like having tantrum, which takes 20mins to calm down disrupting the lesson, shouting at the teacher, grabbing or hitting another child (and once a teacher), throwing all his books and stuff on the floor (numerous occasions), storming out of lessons etc etc.
Now the kids all seem to think this is hysterical (and great fun that almost every lesson is disrupted by "X"), but every day I am a bit , it just sounds very disruptive, and DD is starting to sound more annoyed than thinking its funny.
She does however say that is is clearly very bright indeed.
I know he has just as much right to be taught, but at the cost of disrupting a whole class of children? AIBU?? I can't quite decide TBH, and so far it doesnt appear to be affecting DD1's abilities, but we are only a term in.

RhondaJean what an interesting and insightful question.

I guess every parent of a child with special needs is different, just as every child is. In my case I had three adopted children whose needs were not being met by mainstream school (one of whom was probably disturbing the education of others, one of whom sat in the back of the class silently and never learnt a thing).

The system, the damn system insisted on inclusion, inclusion, inclusion, which sadly did not work for anyone, my children or the others in their class. In our case once the school had exhausted all the help it could give and all the local education authority could give, we took things into our own hands. As I described earlier one child, whose needs ironically were the most severe, we spent seven years trying to get him a rare place at a school that could meet his needs. We provided our own evidence, employed our own professionals, and eventually took the LA to court...and won. He was then immediately transferred him to the appropriate school and his life began. The second child we did the same, only knowing the system it took less time, and the third child we removed from his school completely ourselves because it was having a terrible/horrific effect on him. When the boys were in mainstream education they too had a terrible time - had no friends probably because they were 'too desperate' to make friends and be kind, could not take part in any extra curricular activities, were never asked to anyone's house to play or to a party. Teachers found the boys like marmite - very often a teacher would adore one twin but be unable to handle the other. I am sure they would have disrupted the education of others, but as the parents of children with special needs we were also left out and made no friends at the school gate - I do know we were referred to as the 'mental family'. I should say at the same time we had children without special needs so we could see the other side too.

I now foster teenagers and unfortunately have found the system has got even worse over the years.

doris your previous post really hit the spot. I truly hope everyone goes back and reads it as its superb and is what we should all be doing for the sake of all our children's education, SN or not. It seems that the consensus is that the noone is benefitting from the current arrangement but unfortunately there just arent enough SN provisions. It's up to everyone to make a stand on this, not just the exhausted parents of children with SN

When the boys were in mainstream education they too had a terrible time - had no friends probably because they were 'too desperate' to make friends and be kind, could not take part in any extra curricular activities, were never asked to anyone's house to play or to a party.

That is just heartbreaking.

You may be trying to get more out of it than it is worth! My basic point is:- kids like to skive.

I always find it interesting how differently people interpret posts. That description of the kids finding it "hysterical" - I read it as a group of young children enjoying the drama. Some will find it scary, some will enjoy it, some will be annoyed. I don't think there is necessarily anything mean about it. They may like the disruptive student very much. Sometimes disruptive students are actually quite popular with their peers. It can be a negative sort of popularity but it exists. But, whatever is going on, it needs to be stopped. For everyone's sake.

Sweetmelissa, the system is an absolute shambles.

Even getting a statement is nigh on impossible these days.

How are spots the same as disruptive behaviour?

YANBU - it's not something that can be solved easily but the other 29 children are not less important than the one child - they all have the right to be educated.

If this was my son, I don't think I would want him to be in that classroom. Not when he was being so stressed. He is obviously not getting the best and most appropriate education for him, is he? For the parents who have SN children, what would be the best resolution to this situation from your point of view?

Something that isn't going to happen any time soon tbh.

This will probably be my son this time next year, except minus the 1-1 support as he doesn't have a statement.

There aren't enough places in SSs for children like this, there aren't enough places for children like him who are capable of achieving well academically but who need support.

Amber, there aren't enough places for those children who aren't capable of achieving academically either.

There just aren't enough places fullstop.

Thank you for your answers.

There is no easy solution, I can see that. Melissa, your post in particular moved me almost to tears there.

Can I just say that even nt teenage brains are hard wired to be self centred and not necessarily think about others before themselves, and this is just a normal and necessary (and bloody exasperating) part of parenting teenagers. I don't think it's fair to attack the 12 yo dd or the rest of the class here. Yes you can try to teach them compassion and to some extend you will succeed but I don't think they will really GET it until their own brains mature.

I'm also all for inclusion and integration but there has to be a point where trying to enforce it is not serving the best interests of anyone, as Melissa described. Polter tells of a nightmare situation where when things improve the support that made it better is taken and there's a complete circle going on.

I wonder if a half way house, with inclusion in some classes and at other times separate in order to reduce over stimulation would help everyone - the SN child might be better equipped to deal with shorter periods in the full class and the nt children would get a chance to know them when they aren't completely stressed out which might help with making friends?

I am sorry so many of you have had such bad experiences and had to fight so hard for your children.

Oh I know YouTheCat.

But children like mine with few issues with academic attainment are at the bottom of a very big pile.

PolterGoose - you are so very correct. Education aside, I know the lack of socialisation/friendships my children had during their school years, has lead to HUGE problems in adulthood and left them very vulnerable to abuse.

For god's sake, this boy is suffering! It is not (only) the DD's education being sacrificed on the alter of inclusion but also this boy's education, mental health, self esteem, physical well being, social well being, relationship with family (don't think he's going home from this daily horrendous experience and not taking it out on those at home) and so on and so on.

People trying to out politically correct each other are not helping this child. I, given the power, would put this child on a part time timetable from tomorrow with him going to his favourite lessons and working with a TA 1-1 otherwise, including working on what he needs to succeed in the classroom and a plan to build back up to full time.

SunshineMMum what don't you know what to say. Do you mean you don't think children with SN should have much better access to those who are fully qualified to meet their needs either within or outside the mainstream. Do you mean you wouldn't be prepared to pay more tax to ensure they have better specialist services? Do you mean that you want all children to suffer because services for those with SN is woefully under resourced and inappropriately organised at present.

I don't know if the children in my dd's state school class had special needs or not - I only know that they were uncontrollable, badly behaved and entirely disruptive. There was little the school could do. It was ludicrous and it was wrong that a hard core of five or six were allowed to consistently disrupt, bully and ensure that the majority could not achieve their potential.

That is true though, Amber. So true.

My ds's autism is very much at the severest end of the spectrum which has made it much easier to fight for, and get, specialist education for him. But I still had to fight. Every single statement review the LEA tried to take away his 1:1 support.

Thank you BoobyBeau