to think this probably isn't normal for a C-section

[ZingyThingy]

I regularly lurk and sometimes post. I've name changed as I'm considering taking legal action against a hospital and I want this to be as anonymous as possible. I am also aware that this isn't the best place to put this but I need a bit of info fast.

I had an EMCS after a long labour. CS was mooted about two hours before it actually went ahead. During those two hours I repeatedly told the midwife that I could feel the baby going down into the pelvic bones and was ignored. Just before my baby was taken out of me I felt pressure all over my body to the point where I couldn't breathe. DH thinks this was the operating team lying on me. Then there was a huge amount of pulling, so much so that the operating table left the floor and returned with a bang, to a chorus of shocked 'ohs!' from the team. I have been told this is normal for a c-section, is it?

Um, really? Maybe I'm misreading you but none of that makes sense. You think the entire operating team was lying on you?
Why would they do that? Or, indeed, HOW would they do that?

Hopefully I misunderstand you.

What is the basis of your legal action? Have you or your baby been left with injuries which you believe were caused by the circumstances of your C section?

Are you suggesting that they forced a C section on you unnecessarily and pulled your baby out of your birth canal denying you a vaginal birth? Is that the basis of your complaint?

I'm really sorry, as this obviously has really bothered you, but I don't think that is what happened.

If you're all safe and well I don't think you have any grounds for complaint either.

Sorry if I have the wrong end of the stick here.

It's not normal for a planned section but unfortunately an emergency section can be more complicated and yes, this can happen. Energency sections are traumatic for mums, but generally save lives. Would you rather not have had a section, and if not did you refuse to sign the consent form? Did you/baby receive any injuries? What is the aim of your planned legal action?
(NB I'm a doctor and before changing to general practice have assisted in many C-sections)

They won't have been lying on you, however in order to get the baby out they apply pressure to the top of your bump to help push the baby out .

With DD I felt some pressure. With DS I felt like my chest was being crushed, but he went from engaged to transverse as they tried to get him out so all hell broke lose for what seemed like minutes but was probaly 1 min.

In stressful situations things can seem much worse than the reality. You needed a c-section to get your baby delivered safely, they did what they had to do.

You can review your notes from the operation and discuss with consultant. My Dr called me in to discuss because of what happened with DS, I was lucky to come through with no serious internal injury.

Find out the facts. Then decide whether legal action is necessary.

Have you contacted your mw / hospitial to ask them to discuss what happened with you? Lots of hospitials offer a kind of debriefing service. It sounds more like you have lots of questions about what went wrong, which is understandable. I think talking, not sueing is the first thing to do.

I had a C section with an epidural, and it did feel like there was huge pressure on my body. It was completely painless, but I felt as if something very heavy was on me. It was an odd feeling, but not unpleasant at all. I would have thought this was normal.

I had a sort of knee on the chest sensation accompanied by the doctor instructing his assistant to 'pull harder'.I felt like I'd been suddenly punched firmly in the stomach and let out an involuntary 'oof'.

It did the trick though as DS2 emerged, breech.They said he was lying awkwardly.

It did feel like they were lying on top of me at one point but they weren't- just getting stuck in I think!

I had EMC and it was a huge pressure as they were squeezing baby out - cos thats what they do, push on you to get baby out of that small incision. Left me breatless but althoguh unpleasant was painless. So yes that is normal. Why are you suing them, have you or the baby been left with injuries? EMC are generally done with saving the baby in mind, when the baby is in distress, when there's a danger to the mother, they cost more money to do so aren't done lightly.
If you and baby are fine then you wont ( rightly) get very far with legal action.

I think you may need to try to get some more information about what happened. Could your DH actually see them lying on you.
I have had an elective c section with the baby not in a difficult position. Even then, there was quite a lot of pulling and shoving and I do remember a hefty wrench to get the baby out.
I'm not an expert but if you are considering legal action you will need to show that there has been some damage to you and/or your baby as a result of the hospital action and for a claim to succeed you have to show that the medical team did something very out of line with normal practice which no other medical team would have done. (That's why I think medical negligence claims are difficult to bring). From what you have said, I doubt that there was anything totally our of line in your case.

I don't really understand. Why are you considering legal action?

It is normal in a section for them to place pressure on your bump. I had two people pushing the top of my bump with both hands to try and get DS2 out. It was a lot of pressure but it got him out. That was a planned section too so no urgency, he was just massive! I had a GA for my first (emergency) section so no idea about that.

I'm not sure quite what you're thinking of taking legal action over?

I had a planned CS with DS3 and I felt a lot of pressure on my body. I was told that it was normal and they needed to add pressure to get the baby out.

I really doubt that anyone was lying on you, or if they were it was for a very good reason. The operating team are there to save lives not make lives harder.

On what grounds are you wanting to take legal action?

I agree with Hippo & others - to ask for your medical notes and have a de-briefing session with either the doctor who performed the CS or your Midwife. This doesn't prevent you complaining and /or going down the legal route in the future and will give you more information / explanations. You can take along a 'friend' for support (can be your partner, Mum, anyone). You can ask for help from the Patient Advice and Liaison service at the hospital.
I also agree with other posters that the doctors have to apply pressure to your bump to help pull out the baby - they wouldn't have lain on you. Have you ever watched Midwives - this weeks episode showed some close ups on delivering triplets by CS and the doctors have to be pretty firm in getting their hands inside and give a big tuck - it's not delicate.

This doesn't excuse the midwife ignoring you during labour - and again requesting a de-briefing would help find out what happened so you would have more information to base any complaint. So yes agree - talk first before making an appointment to see a solicitor.

I doubt these days whether you would get Legal Aid to persue a legal case (happy to be corrected).
Hope you and your baby are doing well

Well, a similar thing happened to me and my baby needed to be brought out through my c-section hole using a ventouse and much man-handling. My husband (sat at my head) told me that the two surgeons actually cracked their heads together as they wrestled the baby out.

It's not normal, my baby was well and truly wedged in - this was an elcs fwiw and as it transpired obviously would not have come out vaginally.

My mw told me a few days later she'd never seen bruising like it on my abdomen.

It's not "normal", but it never even crossed my mind to sue - my baby was stuck, they got him out.

If the baby had descended into your pelvis then it could have been really very difficult to get the baby out. Typically this could involve fundal pressure and/or forceps and a LOT of pulling and pushing. That doesn't mean that it was inappropriate to give you a cesarean.

I find it very difficult to believe that the operating table actually left the ground - I spend a lot of time using the things and they're incredibly heavy and have a very stable base (they can take people up to about 250kg in weight). More likely IMO is that they hadn't got the breaks on properly and the pushing and pulling caused it to move suddenly.

Finally, as others have said, in order to take legal action you have to have been harmed in some way, and if you and the baby are physically well you are unlikely to have a case. Even if you have been injured that doesn't necessarily in itself mean that there has been negligence.

brakes not breaks

the head is going to well into the pelvis anyway, after hours of labour. So yes of course you are going to feel it there before the section.

Thanks for that, very little was explained at the time and the pressure at the top of the bump thing sounds very like the sensation I had.

how soon after the birth is it? I have had 2 sections and really dwelled on the births for weeks after each one.

As everyone has said, C sections really aren't very pleasant. With dd, I really felt like they were punching me. The anaesthetist and midwife both reassured me and dh throughout though - where were yours during your delivery? Were they not explaining what was happening?

Although your midwife didn't appear to be listening to you for the 2 hours preceding the section, were you listening to her? Did you understand what was going on? A section wouldn't be performed unless there was a real medical need at that stage.

I'm really sorry for your experience - definitely take the opportunity to get a copy of your notes and discuss the birth with someone at the hospital. But really - as everyone has said, it doesn't sound as if you have a legal case.

I came very close to an EmCS with DS2 as being a VBAC, they had to act quickly when the monitoring indicated signs of distress. He ended up being a rough forceps delivery. I had a follow-up in gynae 3m later and I discussed things with the Cons. Initially they were going to go for CS, hence going into theatre, but he'd come down far enough to make both the forceps and a CS difficult. Either way, a lot of pressure had to be used to get him out of either exit at that point. In an emergency, it may not be safe enough to allow baby time to continue going down the birth canal, so force will be required to get them out. I've heard of forceps being used to push a baby back up before.

My first section it really did feel like someone had climbed up onto my stomach and was jumping up and down - I felt crushed, I dry heaved, the tugging and pulling seemed very rough - but both baby and I were fine, and the medical team really were excellent so I think it was entirely normal.

My second I didn't feel a thing - even though the baby was bigger and I'd been in labour longer (and mobile longer - no epidural this time, spinal block at the last minute instead). I think it's the baby's position that does it a bit, sometimes they're tricker to get out than others.

I too am sorry you have had a traumatic experience.

You should pursue the issue if you feel it will help you to move on and if you feel the hospital has been negligent.

Please ignore people telling you is okay that you experienced this as you got out alive etc.

Regardless of whether or not the hospital is legally liable it ISNT okay that women experience these traumas. The fact they are not that rare makes it worse not better.