To think the school need to support my child

[mychildisnotnaughty]

DS turned 4 at the end of July so started in reception as one of the youngest. Hes been struggling and today I was called in because he ran out of the hall in a PE lesson then when the TA tried to get him back in, he had a tantrum. He then had to wear his PE kit the rest of the day as he refused to get changed and he had no top on as he refused to wear his t shirt.

They said he won't line up either and runs off, also had a tantrum when going to lunch. Also keeps trying to run off at the end of the day.

At the moment I feel he is not being supported, they just keep trying to put him in time out but this doesn't work, I said he needs ignoring but they said that isn't possible. To me it's all down to him being a summer born.

They also complained he's been annoying the school rabbit, this really upset me as at home he loves animals.

AIBU to think they need to do more to help than ring me, as he behaves fine at home so I can't do anything.

[brambleandapple]

Broken

Agree with you. Except schools do have responsibility to educate. Parents have responsibilities too. But LA's have to provide an education even when the parental support is lacking and schools are accountable to them. Parent's time and resources are not limitless either and they certainly cannot be in at two places at once, when their child is at school the school is in loco parentis.

If parents are a child's 'first and most important educators', shouldn't they be listened to and treated with respect? Their knowledge and expertise valued?

[brambleandapple]

Redaing between the lines 'ignoring' may not be such a 'daft' strategy altogether if confrontation that causes an escalation in inappropriate behaviour. Of course it would be better to be able to avoid any triggers for the bad behaviour in the first place....that is if the child finds control difficult in confrontational situations.

[YouTheCat]

I have read it. More available funding does not mean that a school will get allocated that funding for a behavioural issue in such a young child, before other options have been explored.

He has been in school for 6 weeks. It takes a hell of a lot longer than that to get anything sorted out. At 4, if there are no SN, it will be likely seen as an issue of maturity and learning to settle.

[brambleandapple]

^Reading (typo)

[YouTheCat]

Ignoring is not always possible in a school. If a child is endangering themselves or others do you expect the members of staff to just let him run riot?

[brambleandapple]

YoutheCat School management issue though. Do not have to apply for additional funding externally (unless top up is required). So who is responsible for school management? The school and its Governors I would have thought.

[YouTheCat]

You cannot avoid all triggers for behaviour and there is no way the OP's child is going to get through school with no confrontation of his behaviour.

What do you suggest the staff do with the other 20 odd children while everyone runs after OP's ds? If he has a problem with getting changed do you suggest they just let all the children remain in PE kit for the rest of the day. What about at playtime if the child isn't dressed warmly enough - should they then keep them in?

[YouTheCat]

Staff costs money. School budgets are squeezed the same as everything else these days. That would require additional staffing and so would require additional funding and we come full circle.

You cannot expect a school to deploy its staff around one 4 year old.

[BrokenSunglasses]

If parents are a child's 'first and most important educators', shouldn't they be listened to and treated with respect? Their knowledge and expertise valued?

Absolutely! But if the parents don't want to engage then the school doesn't have much chance to listen. They called the OP because they wanted to communicate, and the OP doesn't seem to want to give them the opportunity to listen.

And there's not much point listening when the only thing the parent is willing to offer is completely inappropriate in a school setting.

Confronting already inappropriate behaviour may escalate the situation for that particular child, but ignoring it is highly likely to escalate a situation for 29 other children who are too young to understand that adults think it's ok for one child to run out of the line and not get dressed but it's not ok for them.

Schools have to do certain things to keep some semblance of control. They cannot just ignore every child who is refusing to get dressed, or ignore every child that is tormenting the rabbit. They have to intervene for the child's own good.

[I8toys]

In my opinion age has nothing to do with it.

DS1 was 4 in August when he started school with no problem.

However DS2, one of the oldest in class when he started, has had the same problems as you describe - not lining up etc. First time I heard there was a problem I was straight into the teacher and then head of year. We worked out together a battle plan to try and get him to behave. DS2 is quite bright, very inquisitive and gets bored easily - therefore doesn't like the queuing.

We had a behaviour chart that the teacher would fill in each week so that I knew what was going on at school every day and we then could discuss this after school with DS. This was coupled with a behaviour chart at home and reward for good behaviour. The teachers gave him some responsibilities in class and it has eventually worked although it has taken time. He is in KS2 now.

It is not just the school that has to support your child but you. You need to be pro-active and try to get on top of it from the start. It is still early days but work with the teacher to figure out what is best for him.

[brambleandapple]

I'm all for parents contributing, a good equal working partnership. Where this does not happen the first point of call should not be 'blame the parents'. Blaming the parents is not an excuse for failing a child.

Even if school's budgets are squeezed, more funding has been delegated to schools for additional needs. So additional needs needs to be given a higher priority within schools. Schools do need to be proactive. There are mainstream schools which already have good provision in place, should the need arise. Perhaps this school needs to be talking to some of these schools.

Schools have had to deal with additional needs for years. They should be well versed in the strategies that can help. Maybe a rethink of how teaching is organised in Reception would make the transition a more gentle one and generally more accessible to a greater number of children.

[Floggingmolly]

The additional needs funding is a moot point at this stage, surely?
Op has not mentioned any concerns about the child actually having any special needs as far as she's aware.
Why he has had is a lifetime (literally) of doing as he pleased. When any behaviour failed to impress his mum, she simply ignored it, so he's now struggling with the notion that this isn't, after all, how the world works.
It'll be a huge earnings learning curve for him, but it isn't an additional need in the real sense; and the op very definitely needs to involve herself in finding a solution.

[YouTheCat]

Bramble, if he is the only child having a problem then why should the school reorganise Reception around one child. It is not feasible or practical.

Every child is different. But every child has to learn to fit into some routines in order to get on in life generally.

[brambleandapple]

When I talk about needs which are additional it simply means needs which are in addition to the norm. This does not relate into the route cause for this need. I didn't say SN or even SEN, just additional need, which schools have funding to deal with, whatever the cause might be.

[brambleandapple]

YoutheCat There are reasonable adjustments that can be made, that only benefit one child, or a handful of children but do not have any detrimental effect on the other children, such as starting more gently with the new routines and adding them in gradually, instead of all at once, so the children are less 'bombarded' with the new, for example. Maybe they would not have to change fully for PE at this stage. Just a change of shoes for example. Maybe limit the lining up as much as possible. Maybe organise a managed handover for a child who find the transition from their parent to school and visa versa difficult (5 minute job). All possibilities.

In fact making the adjustments would benefit all the children as they would not have to put up with the disruptive behaviour.

[helsbels03]

I would make an appointment to speak to sendco. He is obviously having issues at the moment for whatever reason. He cannot be ignored at school it is just not possible or appropriate to ignore a child. You are his mum and know him best but you have to work with the school moving schools will only take the problem with him , unless of course you feel the school aren't being

[helsbels03]

Sorry-
Understanding. You don't want him to get the reputation as being the naughty boy and you the parent who won't work with the school. It is nearly half term, done children take longer to settle than others but I think the summer- born thing us an excuse. I have no doubt it effects readiness for reading and writing but not behaviour to this extent. By the way, yes I have been that reception teacher working with 30 children. I have also been the parent called in to deal with dd2 behaviour at school.

[BrokenSunglasses]

Bramble, stopping children getting changed for PE would have a detrimental effect on all the other children though, as would making one member of staff available to the child when he comes into school.

They have only been at school for six weeks, they have only just had enough time to identify a longer term problem, let alone employ another member of staff. The TA that they already have needs to be available to all children, not be monopolised by just one.

Starting school is a big deal for every child, and it is well within the realms of normal to still need to assist children with the coming into school routine, reminding them where to put their water bottle, book bag, helping them with coats etc. an entire class of children will miss out if the member of staff who usually helps with these things is having to focus completely on one child to give them a managed handover for those five minutes.

As for getting changed for PE, it is normal for there to be at least one or two children in reception that can't get changed on their own. Even the ones that can get changed on their own often need to be taught to turn things the right way round, or to put tights on, or do up buttons on pinafores. It is usually at least half term before my reception class get more than 1/2 an hour of PE lesson, because the majority of the time allocated is taken up with getting changed. If we don't help them learn how to change themselves straight away, it will be Christmas before they can have a proper PE lesson while wearing the rights clothes. Plus, school uniform just isn't suitable clothing for some of things hound children do in PE.

[YouTheCat]

Have you worked in a school, Bramble? School is all about lining up. You can't get from one activity to another with 30 children without lining up.

And getting changed for PE is a health and safety issues for some activities.

[brambleandapple]

YoutheCat I have worked in schools before and with large groups of children for play activities and on residential trips, both professionally and in a voluntary capacity.

YoutheCat I mention the changing for PE because some schools don't fully, for the first term of reception.

[lougle]

One question which hasn't been answered is whether the OP has tried to address any of these things at home.

For instance, my DD3 doesn't have SN (DD1 does, goes to special school and had 1:1 at mainstream preschool, etc), but she does have big issues with seams. She hates them. Before starting school she would only wear leggings with the labels cut out. She had rationed down her t-shirts to avoid any relief stitching, ruffles, edging, etc.

We haven't had an easy settling. She's had tears at the doors on most days. She's summer born. After the first week, when we'd had tears and tantrums consistently, something had to change. So I bought her seamless socks.

Seamless socks worked for one day. Then, the polo shirt label that had so far not been noticed because the socks were so annoying, became annoying. So I sewed down the polo shirt labels to make them flat.

Then, the pinafore label poked through the polo shirt. I sewed that down.

School also tackled it by making a 'smiley DD3' chart - sticker if she came in smiling.

She's starting to smile when she goes in each day.

It's a partnership and it won't do any good if one side of the partnership says 'well they're fine with me.'

Just like it doesn't help when my DD2 is stressed at home because school is a hard environment for her, and the school says 'she's fine here' - she's holding it all together at school and explodes at home.

Neither is beneficial to the child and the child should be the focus.

[YouTheCat]

Bramble, that's just not the same as managing a class of 30 all day. Yes, I'm sure there are some small measures that can be undertaken by the school but, given the nature of the behaviour, I really don't think that is going to be enough.

Too many concessions to bad behaviour sends the wrong message to the other children.

[brambleandapple]

Lougle I just feel for the mother. The boy might be fine with her. The environment will be different, so he might not get upset to the same degree. She probably feels like she is called to solve the situation with the school putting forward no useful suggestions.

Alas sticker charts or rewards and sanctions do not work to motivate all children, they just provide more stress. I do have experience of that. What these children actually need is some of the stress to be removed.

[lougle]

brambleandapples, no one is saying that you can't feel for the Mother. That doesn't mean that the best response is to tell the Mother that the school should be spending money on sorting her child out. I appreciate that your overall intention is that she should be able to get support for her DS, but the issues go wider than that.

It may be that it is just teething issues. It may be that he is not used to demands and is used to being able to 'come around' to demands in his own time - if the parenting style is one of co-operative negotiation and a 'never say no' type style, then the child in question isn't going to be used to someone saying 'right, wear this, now.'

I know a fair few parents who feel that their role is to guide their child by being their eternal positive influence. That means never saying no, always explaining why they'd like the child to do x,y,z and never forcing them to, etc. If they hurt another child, the other child is told to 'just ignore x's behaviour because he's not feeling happy on the inside right now...' It's fine. It's ok to make that choice. However, when you then go to an environment where your child is not the centre of the universe, they may struggle (although these parents would say that their self esteem has been so bolstered by this style of parenting that they'll take everything in its stride).

The point I'm making is that you can't decide someone has SN because they aren't fitting in with a system, immediately. You can't decide the school isn't doing enough because they are asking the parent for help. You can't decide the child should have 1:1 support just because they are being disobedient and disruptive. You need to do the ABCs:

Antecedent
Behaviour
Cause

Work out what the issue is, then deal with it.

[brambleandapple]

We agree on that lougle I am not deciding the child has SN, this is why I used the term 'additional needs' not SN. I do not advocate overly permissive parenting, at all.

I did challenge the notion that the school were 'powerless' to act, because they are not. I did challenge the assertion that the parent was to blame, because no one knows her circumstances well enough.