about the feminism/WR area?

[fleacircus]

I don't like dogs, and I think most television is irredeemably stupid drivel and that there's no excuse for anyone with an actual life of their own to watch 'Made in Chelsea', and although I like knitting I don't really get the point of scrap-booking. Those are my opinions, and I'm entitled to hold them, and I would construct arguments to support them if pushed, but I don't go onto the TV thread and find people who like 'Made in Chelsea' and then go on about how wrong they are and when they get angry keep saying 'you just can't take it that other people don't share your opinions' until they get bored and give up on the thread altogether.

And I've got all the kids I want, thank you very much, so I'm not TTC, and I was lucky to conceive my kids in a very straightforward manner, so I don't actually know anything about how it feels not to, and I don't have any useful advice or insights for those who are TTC, and I don't have any medical expertise about TTC, so I've set my MN preferences not to display those threads.

So why is it that people who clearly have no interest in feminism or women's rights, and no knowledge of the often complex political, social and personal ideas being explored, and don't actually hope to learn anything or contribute anything of any value, hang around that area spoiling for a fight? Because there's a whole section of MN dedicated to expressing your opinions. It's this one. There's a question mark in the title and everything.

Or AIBU?

I think it depends on how that would manifest itself in a view basilbabyeater

Sorry, was responding to Grennie there

Sue I didn't know that. I occasionally read MN threads but wasn't a member. I joined to comment on the consent thread.

Basil - I totally agree with that. Unfortunately a lot on the feminism board think that but then are with those exact type of men. Its crazy

yes, many ideas are challenging regarding equal treatment and access to resources, tho' there's a large shared natural Venn Diagram intersection with other liberal/progressive movements.

"Yep, and the notion that a man's attitude to housework is a direct reflection of his attitude to women."

Now that is a great example of the "high level intellectual discussion" that takes place on FWR. Throw out a statement with no evidence behind it, throw in some words like "cognitive dissonance" which kind of sound like they apply and then make out that you are a great theoretician.

What about women who don't like housework? Is that a direct reflection of their attitude towards men, or indeed other women? Or is that merely them heroically making a stand against centuries of patriarchy? On the FWR boards, there would be one clear odds on favourite explanation and the others 100/1 shots.

Why shouldn't Basil state her views? Just like everyone else here.

How many women on fwr say I cant change it society has to change when it comes to their own men treating them like complete and utter doormats. It makes me cringe in cases like that.

So YANBU. In a way.
Because it sometimes seems that anyone not armed with a bundle of peer reviewed, academic papers nd appropriate links on the topic they have a view on (me) can be made to skulk off with their tails between their legs.
I have a degree (only a Bsc) but not in the appropriate field and I find the forum a bit overwhelming

Grennie,

If you are addressing me, then she has absolutely every right to state her views, the same as everyone else, as long as she obeys the MN guidelines. However, other posters have a right to robustly challenge her views, as long as they are addressing the argument or the quality of the argument and not making personal attacks.

And I can't spell

"Throw out a statement with no evidence behind it, throw in some words like "cognitive dissonance" which kind of sound like they apply and then make out that you are a great theoretician."

I think Larry you were challenging her right to state her views.

I dont care if you disagree with her views. But everyone has a right here to state their views.

Grennie,

Where in my post am I challenging her right to post? I am describing what I see in the post and critiquing the quality of it. If you were to say my post was rubbish because x, y and z, then you would in no way be challenging my right to post.

You are attacking a straw man.

I've rarely seen anything being discussed at a level of complexity that should put people off. I also think the boards are a lot friendlier since the 'episode'.

There are some great posters on there. But there can be a lot of smuggery, cliques and I have seen people being shut down if they don't agree with the consensus view. That's not by everyone, just a few people. But it's sad that is still putting people off.

I think coming on AIBU and starting a thread basically saying you don't welcome people on FWR unless they have done some research into feminist theory and understand a few bits of basic terminology (which would generally take you a sentence to explain if they didn't) is pretty U and possibly will keep more women away than it will encourage to come on and post. Which is a shame.

Am I missing something? Basil gave an example of what is said on FWR. Larry criticised what happens in FWR through that example.

I didn't read any of it as "Basil's views".

Anyone should be able to post on fwr, not just those who have studied it. As long as it's in the guidelines etc.

"What about women who don't like housework?"

That's nearly everyone isn't it?

I don't know anyone who actively likes housework (though I accept that they exist. ) Just people who do it. And people who think it's not their problem. And in general, the people who think it's not their problem are men, children and alcoholics. Just sayin'.

Anyway I'm off swimming now, so sorry if I don't come back to this.

And yes, I am being flippant.

The FWR board is different from most of the others because the level of debate is intellectually higher than most

It's different alright, but the debate being more intellectual is not true. However that statement points to the real problem.

It certainly isn't the high level of intellectual debate that's putting me off posting there. For me, if that were allowed to happen it would be a plus point.

It's the fact that those intelligent on-point discussions keep getting hijacked by posters who have no desire to debate constructively, persistently attempt to stop the current conversation to discuss their issue, or who simply want to troll or goad.

High level intellectual debate it is not. Several threads are a mass of deletions and tedious and pointless arguments so that it's a job sometimes finding posts that stick to a critique of the thread topic.

I admire the clever regulars who post there and especially appreciate their intellectual and academic input, just as much as I appreciate posters who want to talk about their lived experience of feminism and equal rights.

All I want is a talkboard that doesn't get invaded by trolls and goaders, where it is possible to have an on-track conversation about the issues raised in the thread.

I disagree catgirl
I ventured onto that board with a genuine issue
I think they probably thought I was a troll but I was insulted and shot down in flames
I am a working class woman and felt very unwelcome and alienated
And I dont have a clue what 'the issue' was so have no idea if I posted before or after the issue
I only know that I would stay away from that board and think I have no connection to anyone on that board

I don't think it's a class issue at all. I am working class through and through. I have not studied feminism academically at all. All my knowledge is from gut feelings, experience, reading links posted on places like the FWR board, learning from others there/elsewhere and on the relationships board and being involved in such as part of my job.

No more, no less. Some of the discussions I find I can really relate to (abusive relationships, fucked up family dynamics, eg). Some of them I feel further away from (transgender issues, eg) but I just skim over them as not of current interest to me. It doesn't mean I don't respect others viewpoints about them though.