about the feminism/WR area?

[fleacircus]

I don't like dogs, and I think most television is irredeemably stupid drivel and that there's no excuse for anyone with an actual life of their own to watch 'Made in Chelsea', and although I like knitting I don't really get the point of scrap-booking. Those are my opinions, and I'm entitled to hold them, and I would construct arguments to support them if pushed, but I don't go onto the TV thread and find people who like 'Made in Chelsea' and then go on about how wrong they are and when they get angry keep saying 'you just can't take it that other people don't share your opinions' until they get bored and give up on the thread altogether.

And I've got all the kids I want, thank you very much, so I'm not TTC, and I was lucky to conceive my kids in a very straightforward manner, so I don't actually know anything about how it feels not to, and I don't have any useful advice or insights for those who are TTC, and I don't have any medical expertise about TTC, so I've set my MN preferences not to display those threads.

So why is it that people who clearly have no interest in feminism or women's rights, and no knowledge of the often complex political, social and personal ideas being explored, and don't actually hope to learn anything or contribute anything of any value, hang around that area spoiling for a fight? Because there's a whole section of MN dedicated to expressing your opinions. It's this one. There's a question mark in the title and everything.

Or AIBU?

[DebrisSlide]

StarBall has hit the nail slightly to the side of head on. I know you have an issue with school uniforms for girls, Starball. I find it baffling that you can't find any linkage with Page 3, but thats by the by. But surely you can find some common ground on the issues you do care about? That one cares about one thing does not preclude caring about another, surely? FWR isn't a hive mind unless you make it so by not posting. The more people post on there, the more like-minded people you will find posting on there.

The OP was, I believe, talking about the trolls, not anyone else. If you don't frequent FWR you won't see what they are talking about. If there was ever a place to trial the hide poster function...

[DioneTheDiabolist]

Fuck me. This thread has found me in agreement with Cote.

[happyon]

Yep, don't come to this site unless you're prepared to be disagreed with. Fair enough, but that counts for those of you who feel bullied there as much as it does for the regulars. You can't have it both ways, but you want to.

The FWR board is different from most of the others because the level of debate is intellectually higher than most. Some people find that difficult but that's how it is. Deal with it.

[Pan]

That's nice and welcoming, and not at all aggressive and defensive happyon.
I think the characteristic (rather than level) of debate can be intellectual as there are many academics posting there, more so that other boards. A comparitor could be the Fiction board, but ime there isn't the same self-conscious 'academia' on display.

[meditrina]

"The FWR board is different from most of the others because the level of debate is intellectually higher than most. Some people find that difficult but that's how it is. Deal with it."

That has to take some sort of prize for the smuggest, most pompous, and also unfounded statement I've seen for ages!

[Pan]

it's also rather 'anti-intellectual' fwiw.
there was a bit of a shakedown after that ugly car crash, but if it's 'improved' is purely opinion, innit?

[BasilBabyEater]

To answer your Q OP, I think it's because feminism challenges people more than practically anythign else - people find it deeply threatening to their world view, their relationships, their assumptions.

And they also think they know about it, because everywhere in the mainstream media we hear about what feminism is - and it's always wrong.

[jasminerose]

A lot of the people on fwr talk about theory but dont put it in to practice. For instance thinking its sexist a woman doing all the work in the home, but then putting up with men who do just that. Its rather frustrating tbh.

[DameFellatioNelson]

I think the difference with all the examples you cite is that unlike the Radical Feminist movement, dog loving and scrapbooking are not political/social ideologies, and us such the people who love dogs and enjoy scrapbooking don't constantly campaign to force everybody else to do as they say. Neither are they criticising all non-dog-loving, non-scrapbooking people like hell and over-analysing every little inconsequential thing to see if they can squeeze out some tenuous, imagined anti-dog, anti-scrapbooking angle.

That's the difference.

But they are not all that mad. Just some of them.

[BasilBabyEater]

But feminism doesn't do that either DameFellatioNelson and we also don't feel the need to imply that a large section of the scrapbookers and the dog lovers are a bunch of arseholes really.

Also, actually you could argue that the religious boards do that (if you were simplistic and rude). But on the whole, feminists don't troll those boards (at least if they do I'm not aware of it. Do the religious boards get trolled a bit/ a lot?)

[roadwalker]

It is rather a pompous love fest on there
A lot of high brow posting with others then saying how wonderful they are and how much they have to think about
I think they post to massage an ego rather than genuine debate

[Pan]

"To answer your Q OP, I think it's because feminism challenges people more than practically anythign else - people find it deeply threatening to their world view, their relationships, their assumptions."

see BBE, I don't think they do, and it's a bit of a marker about some feminists sense of their own importance and Moses-like qualities to assert this. Which then gets played out on the FWR boards and pisses people off it. People get 'challenged' and compromised by lots of things in life more important and difficult-to-deal-with than feminism.

[ArmyOfPenguins]

I think the people who feel that their opinions are being 'dismissed' or 'shot down' by feminists are simply losing the argument.

[Pan]

and yes the spititual/religous boards get 'trolled' a lot by non-believers and the bored who wish to pass some time in sneer mode.

[Grennie]

I like the feminism board, I find it welcoming. It is AIBU that is scary.

[BasilBabyEater]

Tell me more about the RL challenges women face Pan.

[Threalamandaclarke]

I don't like dogs and I cannot knit.
I think some ppl find the idea of "feminism" frightening and threatening for many reasons. It's a bit of a hot potato. I would imagine some derailed are trolls/ men?
I often find it confusing. I would describe myself as a feminist if asked, and I am known in RL to have some "strong" views about things like dv, equality and objectification of girls and women.
But I stay away from the F/ WR boards because I have found that some of my views are not considered valid by what I might term the more "professional" feminists. And when I try to explain that for me, being respected "as a woman" might involve the acceptance and embracement of the fact that I am different from a man (a poor example?) I have felt berated for my ill informed position.
So rest assured.you'll not find me in the knitting section, pets corner or F/WR boards.

[Grennie]

On the feminism board there was a man who got banned - yesterday? He was obviously trolling. It wasnt about debating or having different ideas. It was about trying ti wind people up. The difference was obvious. And MN obviously agreed.

[Pan]

[BasilBabyEater]

The real AmandaClark, I agree with you that "being respected "as a woman" might involve the acceptance and embracement of the fact that I am different from a man" and I've never been berated for believing that on the FWR board.

[Grennie]

And I do think for most of us feminist ideas challenge the ideas we were brought up with - whether we agree with those ideas or not. For example, the current thread on the nature of consent.

Whether women should vote, or be paid the same as women, rarely challenge anyone likely to be on here. But many feminist ideas are challenging.

[Suelford]

The current consent thread is maybe the first thread this year that has involved relatively complex theory and arguments. Most of the threads are "Have you seen this TV show" or "They have pink Kinder eggs now". There really isn't a high level of intellectual debate.

[larrygrylls]

Kickass,

"As someone who went to a church school, I may well have a lot of experience and ideas, but I wouldn't join a discussion about spirituality as I have never really studied theology a whole load"

If you saw on active, for instance, a thread on the spirituality board which was basically saying that women should submit in marriage, would you feel it was outside your experience and authority to contribute? Or would you feel it was plain wrong, no matter how deep the theological discussion was or how many biblical texts were sited?

[BasilBabyEater]

Yep, and the notion that a man's attitude to housework is a direct reflection of his attitude to women.

That's a really tough one because it challenges people's cognitive dissonance about their relationships. They hate that.