Why do you think behaviour in schools is so much worse than even 10 yrs ago.

[soul2000]

This is not a joke thread. I am generally interested as to how much the standard of behaviour has deteriated in the last 25 years since i left school.

What amazes me, is that teachers are not shocked when watching programes like educating yorkshire, that just shows how bad the behaviour of some pupils is.

Another shocking thing is that pupils who in my time would have been labeled a menace "ME INCLUDED" are now seen as upstanding pupils.

How has the standard fallen so far and what can be done to re address the balance.

This thread is in support of teachers.

I wasn't being isty earlier, and I apologise to anyone who thought I was. It's just that working in a school with high transience and a high level of split families, you can see that some children are far more resilient to change than others. This may be due to personality; acrimony in a parental relationship; number of moves; relationship with the absent parent - a whole host of reasons.

Obviously a lack of resilience is going to be manifested as a wobbly emotional state, often displaying as attention-seeking behaviour. These children need lots of help in school, so that they can feel safe and secure.

ipad do you seriously believe that parents separate because of lack of resilience? Have you even read any of the threads on the relationships boards, here? I suggest you do. It's highly educational.

You've got to compare like with like. And the post of mine (on another thread) that the OP referred to in her second post, was that I've taught in pretty much the same area for around 27 years, so similar catchment, similar schools and the kids of some former pupils are coming through now!
Whereas years ago we had the odd class with a 'reputation,' and a few 'names' who entertained us in the staffroom, nowadays it's the rare class who hasn't got a significant number of challenging children, and a far greater number of 'entitleds,' whose parents are highly likely to quibble over this and that. The low-level nonsense is very time-consuming.

By the way, I'm talking leafy Home Counties here, if it makes a difference.

clam The two variables here are changes that have occurred within yourself (affecting the content of your observations) and changes to the area you have lived in for 27 years.

27 years sounds a lot longer than it feels!

A couple of housing estates built, but similar to others already in the area.

My tolerance levels, you mean? Don't know about that - will go and examine my conscience...

Clam other changes that will have occurred are the changes in personnel at schools. I have observed in my locality the huge changes to a school that a change in head teacher can make (and other teachers can make a real difference to the feel of a school, the lose of a deputy head has changed my DCs primary from when my DS started 11 years ago).

Also I have seen changes in the area in which I live (leafy SE) over the last 17 years, when we've lived here. I know the area where I grew up has changed massively since I was there.

I actually feel there is a growing sense of entitlement from some teachers, for an easier life or better work / life balance, hardly surprising considering the emphasis over the years on what our education system lacks.

At one time teaching was considered a 'Vocation'. Don't hear that phrase used much now. This IMO could either be right or wrong, depending on the individual teacher. It depends how healthy their view is of work / life balance is. It goes without saying a good teacher should not expect an easy ride, it is a profession after all.

Wanting an easier life?! The job is 10 times harder than it used to be.

I agree with clam

I said exactly the same thing on pages 3 and 4 of this thread. You just didn't have the amount of low level irritating disturbances, from MC children, years ago.

clam Is it though? Some of the poverty that was around still in the 50s and 60s. Some children were wrapped in newspaper under their uniforms because of the cold. A lot of children still walked miles to school through all weathers. Crime still existed, there were Teddyboys, Rockers, Hippy parents....the list goes on.

There were certainly problems, maybe they were different ones.

shewhowiness Have you read Stephen Fry's autobiography?

www.amazon.co.uk/Moab-My-Washpot-Stephen-Fry/dp/0099457040/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1380982274&sr=1-3&keywords=stephen+fry

I worked at the local secondary school for 7 years. many of us felt that behaviour had deteriorated. there was a change in head, the previous one being very strict and aloof and the newer one more matey with staff and possibly more easily manipulated.

I agree with alot of what has been posted. large school which became larger and one size doesn't fit all.

lower down the school year was split in half. as rule of thumb the nicer classes chose one set of options as oppose to another but not always so.

Now you are not comparing like for like. i wouldn't even send a child today to boarding school, let alone years ago. I bet the teachers didn't have trouble teaching the kids though...

shew You certainly haven't read the book I mentioned have you?

I mentioned it because you mentioned the Middles Classes.

alemci How do you define nice? How can you say certain set options are the right choices for the nice classes? What do nice people like doing? Am I nice? Do I want to be nice?

^That should read 'set of options'.

Ime the very worst behaviour is no worse. Neither more severe or frequent. The constant low level griping and arguing is pretty constant these days and much worse.. At the same time because of ofsted and tables and accountability, most average teaching is much better day to day.

The constant low level griping and arguing is pretty constant these days and much worse.

From the teaching staff or the children? Did teachers gripe so much about their jobs 10 years ago?

I think the moaning is pretty insidious in today's society and we get it everywhere, on the news, in the papers, magazines, internet....Not surprising children join in with everyone else.

ourve ipad do you seriously believe that parents separate because of lack of resilience? Have you even read any of the threads on the relationships boards, here? I suggest you do. It's highly educational.

No, You misunderstand me.
I'm talking about a psychological resilience (defined as 'an individual's tendency to cope with stress and adversity'.) Some children cope with change / chaotic home lives really well. Some don't. Sometimes this lack of 'coping' transfers to a child's behaviour.

Studies have shown that the children of service families are often affected when a parent is on tour of duty (which often displays as a change in behaviour). This is one of the reasons the pupil premium is awarded to all forces' children, so that any problems can be dealt with sensitively.
Data from a US study:
Children in all age groups exhibited increased problem behaviors:
57 percent of children had increased problem behaviors at home. 37 percent of children had increased problem behaviors at school.

I also think some behaviour is worse in younger children because schools are introducing academic concepts too early, before children have been given the chance to socialise and communicate effectively.

bramble Actually, I suspect you may have hit the nail on the head with this statement.... .

I think the moaning is pretty insidious in today's society and we get it everywhere, on the news, in the papers, magazines, internet....Not surprising children join in with everyone else.

Perhaps it's not that things are worse as much as people are just less content, more vocal about complaints, and less willing to be happy with what they have. Now obviously, in some circumstances, it's good to kick up a fuss to get things - equal rights, education for children with SNs, etc etc. But it does seem that moaning is a universal pastime now... and believe me, I'd say it's not just prevalent here but also in the US. We've gone from "striving to do better" to "not happy with what we have" IMO, which is a huge shift of values.

I bet that in the 1950s and 60s, schools weren't inundated with parents fussing about how much water their children had drunk that day, and could the teacher make sure their child ate all their lunch and to please remind them to wear their coat at playtime and WHY hasn't Jimmy got an A in this piece of work?

Clam No they'd be wanting to know why their child had been caned (beaten black and blue).

I don't think they would have questioned it bramble.

I agree with clam that helicopter parenting can affect behaviour. If children know that their parents will believe anything they say and will beat a path to the school door to argue in their defence, then a teacher's authority and behaviour management is undermined. That gives a child power over the teacher, and a carte blanche to behave badly.

better behaved and more respectful but not always so but most of us working there drew that conclusion. the more difficult dc tended to be in the one option choice class in one half of the year but it wasn't always conclusive.

ipadquietly True authority comes from having a reputation for actually being right and having the best interests of others at heart. Serving the people you have authority over.

A teacher's authority means nothing if they have to rule through fear, which is the only reason why you would be concerned whether a parent would back you up regarding sanctions. If they are unfair sanctions it sounds like bullying tactics. As a parent I have to do what my own conscience dictates.

I don't know who has decided a rigid system of rewards and sanctions are the best tool for motivating all children to learn. I would have thought instilling a love of a subject for its own merits is more valid in terms of motivation (in fact read some research in New Scientist the other year that seemed to prove this point).