Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think it's not ok to make me feel pfb when I say I don't want to cry it out

89 replies

fairy1303 · 01/10/2013 10:04

Sorry, thread title doesn't make sense.

I am getting so so sick of everyone my mothers generation (and some mine!) telling me constantly to 'just leave him to cry'.

DS is 14 weeks old. He is generally a great, contented baby. He has had reflux and so does get fussy after feeds, but that's it.

Once when he was crying for ages, I phoned my mum at end of my tether - she told me to put him in pram in other room and leave him. He was 6 weeks old.

When I said I'd rather not do that, she was Hmm and told me if I gave in to him I would make a rod for my back!

I get variants of this from mother in law, aunts etc etc and it's driving me crazy.

Snide comments about it etc.

AIBU getting irritated by it? They make me out to be some neurotic pfb mother who 'panders' to him!

OP posts:
spatchcock · 01/10/2013 16:21

"Some older generation think the fact that managed to have one or two babies and get them to adult hood without killing them is evidence they know the best ways to raise DCs. "not killing them" is the bare minimum I expect from child raising"

YY. I got this from my DM and MIL. "I left you/DH to cry at the bottom of the garden and you survived." How depressing if mere survival is all we're aiming for!

Bamboobambino · 01/10/2013 16:29

Can somebody post a link to this evidence of harm regarding CIO please. I mean a link to the actual published literature rather than opinion.
Thanks muchly.

spatchcock · 01/10/2013 16:37

Bamboo

Here

Bamboobambino · 01/10/2013 16:50

Thanks spatchcock. A lot of references to work through at the end of that article. I like to evaluate all the evidence before I make my mind up.

spatchcock · 01/10/2013 16:54

I'm undecided on this issue, to be honest. I will have a read as well but not sure how far my unsciency mind will get with literature entitled “The Experience-Dependent Maturation of a Regulatory System in the Orbital Prefrontal Cortex and the Origen of Developmental Psychopathology.”

There are plenty of reports confirming the same in 'reputable' broadsheets like the Guardian, but I take most science reporting in the mainstream media with a grain of salt as there are very few decent science writers these days.

Bamboobambino · 01/10/2013 16:59

Have a look at 'How to read a paper' by Trish Greenhalgh. It may help you see the wheat for the chaff in a lot of what's banded about as proof.

roweeena · 01/10/2013 16:59

Please anyone wanting to read the research and who has read the above link posted by spackcock please read this article from time magazine which actually gives a critical appraisal of all the 19 studies quoted in the above link and also contacts authors of the studies quoted.

ideas.time.com/2012/05/10/the-science-behind-dr-sears-does-it-stand-up/

The science doesn't stand up, the authors of the studies involve themselves state that the results are not related to short sleep training but are cases of severe neglect, or the studies are based on animals. Please read this article!

Stating that leaving babies to cry whilst sleep training leads to brain development is scaremongering and not helpful to other mums.

That said 14 weeks is too young!

MinesAPintOfTea · 01/10/2013 17:02

I hate leaving babies to cry. However I have been there with the newborn who won't stop screaming and utterly at the end if my tether and if you'd rung me like that I would have told you to put him in his cot and have a cup of tea.

But cuddling/bfing to sleep with Co-sleeping when required was my life.

toomanypasswords · 01/10/2013 17:09

For what it's worth, I sympathise! When my DD was that little I found it IMPOSSIBLE to leave her when she was crying and now looking back on it a year and a bit later, I don't think I did the wrong thing by going to her when she did. She's 18m now and I still find it difficult to leave her when she cries, though she settles herself quickly now which is helpful and I can now tell the difference between proper 'I need my mum' crying and 'I just want to make a noise and don't want to go to sleep' crying. If I'm feeling guilty (how ridiculous is that?!?) about 'pandering' to her and running when she cries, I just think that she's only little for a very small proportion of her (and my) life and it won't last forever, which in some ways is lovely (i.e. no more crying, sleeplessness etc) and in others such a shame that it is such a short period of time in the grand scheme of things. I want to enjoy and remember all of it and if that means cuddling my baby / toddler / little girl when she wants it, then I flippin' well will! In the unlikely event that she gets to school age and still does it, I'll need to re-think! Smile

Anyway, better go and get her from nursery...

toomanypasswords · 01/10/2013 17:12

And I agree with MinesAPintOfTea - I have left her when I've got to the end of my tether and had a few minutes out and then gone back calmly and dealt with the situation and have also cuddled and b'fed to sleep on countless occasions.

Ragwort · 01/10/2013 17:15

Seriously just don't ask for advice, or put yourself in the position of seeming unsure of what to do.

I am sure people are only trying to be helpful - I have to bite my tongue as I have a dear friend who has never slept through the night as her children disturb her every single night - they are 8 & 10 now Grin. She will never, ever leave them to self-settle.

If you are confident in your own ability to parent your own child, and are happy to pick up & cuddle your baby then just do it with a big smile on your face; what I find hard is mums (not you OP) who complain that their child won't sleep but wouldn't dream of trying some form of CIO/CC/whatever.

I did CC when my baby was very young, it worked for us, he has never had a sleep issues, but I get constantly flamed for it on Mumsnet so I rarely bother to post on these threads. Grin.

arethereanyleftatall · 01/10/2013 17:49

The problem is with the article that spatchcock linked to, is they talk of how leaving a child to cio for Weeks would be damaging. But, if you do choose to leave your child to cio, it only takes a few days max before they self settle. Ime.

peppinagiro · 01/10/2013 19:39

YADNBU. This drives me insane. Some posters have suggested you shouldn't ask for advice or seem unsure - but I find that totally random strangers just come and give me this idiotic advice when I definitely haven't invited it. For example, the other day I was standing in the street chatting to my neighbour, holding my then 10 week old who was smiling quite contentedly. Not a whimper. Some random woman of about 60 sauntered past and started telling me that I should leave her in her room alone to cry for a couple of hours and she'd soon learn not to whinge. Wtf?! She wasn't even crying!!!

She then launched into a long story about how she sent her DD off to some sort of special centre where nurses kept the babies for three days and left them to cry, and it completely cured them of crying. I have absolutely no idea what she was on about.

puntasticusername · 01/10/2013 22:05

On CC and COI - I agree with those who are pointing out the limitations of the "anti" studies quoted. It seems they are talking about children crying for really excessively long periods of time, not properly managed CC/COI. If you're leaving a child to cry for THAT long...you're doing it wrong, or something else is wrong. And 14 weeks is, imo, rather young to be thinking of CIO. Not to mention "being naughty", ffs, what a ridiculous idea.

As you've guessed, I'm generally pro COI, it worked well for us and was the only solution in the end to DS's sleep disruption after moving house last year (he was about 18m at the time). And he's one of the happiest kids you'll ever meet, and perfectly well bonded to me and his dad.

But more importantly, useful (hopefully) advice for OP: everyone parents differently and as others have said, everyone's got a bloody opinion about whatever you happen to be doing that's different to them. Sod the lot of them. They are not you, they will never know or love your children like you do, and by definition you, as your child's mother, are infinitely better qualified than they will ever be to decide what works best for your children and your family overall.

CC/CIO is not for everyone. In the end it really doesn't matter how you manage your child's sleep, as long as whatever you do works for you, the child and the rest of your household. I think the biggest problems tend to come if you're trying to follow a regime you're not totally comfortable with. So follow your own wishes and as I say, sod anyone who disagrees. It's your call.

Having said that, the vast majority of the people who are encouraging you to CIO mean well and want to help you (I do mean the people you are close to rather than random women in the street, WTF was SHE on?). They are giving the advice because they genuinely think you'd be happier if you followed it. It's basically well-meaning, but unfortunately somewhat ignorant behaviour from people who don't understand that you can't simply change your own parenting style just like that.

I have a friend whose well-meaning friends literally dragged her on a girls' night out when her pfb was 8 weeks old. She had never left him before and hated every moment away from him. Nine years later, it still pains her and she resents those friends for thinking they knew better than her what would make her happy. And yet they absolutely meant it all for the best.

Last thing (promise!) - feel free to imagine choke-slamming anyone who airily tells you to "just rely on your maternal instincts!". Maternal instinct is powerful and mighty, but it is sometimes not realised, I think, that it does not quite arrive fully-formed. All it means in the beginning is that you love your child beyond all reason and would do anything - and go through anybody - to protect them. It doesn't mean you will always know exactly what to do with them. It certainly doesn't mean you'll be able to effortlessly interpret every single cry. A lot of that comes with experience, but kids still constantly throw new things at you. Personally, I got a lot happier when I was able to admit to myself that I didn't always know just what to do, and shouldn't expect that from myself.

Apologies for excessive length. Hope it's remotely helpful at least. All the very best to you.

puntasticusername · 01/10/2013 22:17

Sorry one more thing, sorry sorry sorry...

Don't worry about making mistakes and "getting into bad habits" and "making a rod for your back". It's actually not THAT easy to get into "bad" habits and if you do sometimes find you've sleepwalked into a place you no longer want to be in...it doesn't matter, you just change things at that point. Kids are very flexible and nothing is forever. It's demonstrated every day on every Super nanny type programme on tv.

RubyGoat · 01/10/2013 22:30

Do whatever you feel is best. You know your baby better than anyone else in the world. If you feel that CC isn't right - there you go. I've got friends who it worked for but, as I said earlier, I would not consider it for our DD & she is not spoilt or naughty. She is a handful at times, but IMHO, better that than scared of everything & clingy due to not knowing if we are going to be around. She knows we will always be there for her, whenever she needs anything.

Catsize · 01/10/2013 22:41

lego, we share similar philosophies. Even the term 'controlled crying' bothers me. And I have a totally non-science based theory that those of us who were raised by the Dr Spock book, rather than our parents, and left to cry at the bottom of the garden etc. have turned into rather insecure adults deep down. My brothers and I were left to cry and we put up with an awful lot of emotional crap that I hope my son will be strong enough to avoid. He was breastfed on demand, we co-slept etc. and as for rod for back, so far the rod is great. Our son stopped breastfeeding all of a sudden at ten months by his own choice and never attempted to go back. Seemed to co-incide with walking. And he was in his own bed at 13mths. He doesn't have a favourite soft toy etc. because he has never had to substitute his parent for anything inanimate.
I had no idea I was such a hippy type until I became a parent, and we still get lots of grief for our parenting from both sets of in-laws. But it is hard to say 'Mum, I think what you did was morally wrong and has messed up my brothers and me, so I am going with cave-dweller instincts rather than books, thank you'. So we don't. Two years later, my mum still raises eyebrows etc. but she can see that her grandson is very confident, independent and happy, and I guess she sees that as the main thing.

Catsize · 01/10/2013 22:44

Oh. But occasionally I left his colicky little self in a room whilst I went outside for a few deep breaths. Only for a moment or two though. Blush
OP, go with your inner cave woman. Grin

FreeWee · 01/10/2013 23:10

For the first 9 weeks of DDs life she didn't let me put her down and I got lots of 'helpful' advice about her not learning to sleep on her own etc. We did Baby Whisperer 'lite' as it were and she's now a great sleeper and very content on her own. My friend commented the other day when she fell forwards and hit her head and cried that she'd not heard her cry in ages. That's because she's happy, secure and her needs are met. You can't spoil them only meet their needs. Why wouldn't you want to do that? So your child is crying because they want a cuddle. Why wouldn't you give them a cuddle?

kali110 · 01/10/2013 23:33

Think op you should do what feels best for you.
Dont think there is anything wrong with cc/cio its not for everyone but i would never tell anyone its wrong.
You should parent the way you feel right.

Threalamandaclarke · 02/10/2013 09:23
WinteronPluto · 02/10/2013 10:34

This may open a can of worms but I found that letting baby sleep on her side or even front after the first couple of months helped. Not a new born obviously.

I understand that current advice is that sleeping on their front is dangerous, although it was the advised position when we were babies. I had a very firm mattress!

You can achieve sleeping on the side with a rolled up blanket to prop baby on.

This seemed to help reflux.

IceBeing · 02/10/2013 11:03

winterton wtf?

Why do you exclude newborns from your guideline contravening suggestion?

The back sleeping is a sudden infant death reduction method. The rate of SIDS in newborns is much lower than it is for 1-4 month olds. It would actually be safer to allow a newborn to sleep on their tummy than a 14 week old.

At 14 weeks old the OPs baby is right in the middle of the peak rate for cot death. TBH I find the suggestion to go against the guideline completely outrageous. How would you feel if the OP followed your advice and lost her baby?

WinteronPluto · 03/10/2013 11:36

Blooming heck icebeing, just saying it worked for me with reflux.

Sleeping on their side propped up with a rolled up blanket isn't contravening any guidelines.

I think your post is the kind of thing that gives Mumsnet a bad name - turning so much vitriol on being for giving their honest opinion.

WinteronPluto · 03/10/2013 11:36

Ps - i won't respond to you again, Icebeing, so don't bother coming back to me about this.

Swipe left for the next trending thread