To agree with workfare in principal?

[IAmMiranda]

Donning my flame retardant underwear - though note I'm not for the current scheme, but the principal is sensible.

Working for unemployment benefits makes sense to me - provided that the "wage" is fair for the hours and skills. Eg. £90 a week job sellers could equal 15 hours of charity work?

Taking into account disabilities, childcare and other responsibilities I really don't think its unfair to provide people with jobs to earn the equivalent of benefits?

I do think its wrong to line the pockets of corporations, reduce jobs for other workers etc but surely charity work is an option?

I think I've probably missed some huge glaring point but AIBU?

(NOTE: I have previously been in reciept of JSA and would happily have done 15 hours a week and had plenty of time to job search)

offered when to are back in work - for 10 years or so - - so around 2024-2025 I suspect you will understand everyone else's POV much better.

everyone has their own shit going on.
we just work long hours, pay our taxes, for very little thanks from anyone... and expect others - who are well - to do the same.

I'm hiding the thread now.

You know nothing about my life or my relationships or children and it is clear I will never be able to satisfy you.

I should work but I shouldn't expect childcare, I should be a contributor but I should not expect to be able to do a job whereby I'll be able to contribute.

I do wish that you would at least recognise the things that you have been fortunate in and be grateful for them rather than spiteful towards other people who haven't had them. I'm not necessarily talk about me personally when I say that btw.

But I am hiding the thread now. It is grim. You can keep saying you are not saying the things you are, it is on the thread for everyone to see.

I do think some people hide behind the fact that they are 'studying'. A 35 plus women for example (and I am not talking about Offred tbh only) having x children, a partner that has now left and seems to have another family could have unrealistic expectations of what they hope to achieve in life.

I had 2 children and 3 would have finished me off but I was working. Some choose to stay at home and that's fine, until the working partner states they are leaving. You are then left with no recent employment history, children, and no real way of supporting yourself.

Gah - why is this thread all about Offred! It is like we've all been sucked into a vortex.

There is a really interesting debate to be had about workfare but we've lost it somewhere along the way.

TheBigJessie will you be working to provide for your family or claiming IS to support your family. That would be how it is cheaper to fund an 18 yr old at Uni.

Offred I don't see how you are being abused on here. I do think you are looking for people to agree with you and then getting angry they disagree

I agree. The insanity of "we're not really in charge of whether we have children or not" has derailed everything.

Moving on. But I have to go to work now. See you guys later.

Post is right of course. The thing is that Offred dug herself deeper and deeper into a hole and really does feel that society/the state/taxpayers should fund her life. Of course she has had issues in her life.

Havent we all though NO ONE goes through life sailing through without any problems.

I went to a rubbish sec modern school. I did manage to claw my way out but I choose to live in the SE where the jobs are, I didnt have babies until I was sure. Some ignore all of this,make poor choices in men, refuse to move from their home town to look for work and then wonder why it hasnt worked out for them....

I also think there are definitely glass half full/glass half empty people.

Rich and poor. The 'victims' of life. I have a close relative like this, married to a very rich man but moans continually about her lot in life, never her fault, always someone's else who 'forced' her into the decisions she makes. Her favourite saying is 'well I had no choice'.

She is educated, lovely family and very much supported but still isnt happy

The fact is that women are left literally holding the baby if the man bolts or has no money. The state is then left to support them.

I didnt want to be in that situation. So, I took control of birth control. I was never pregnant without it being a choice. Am I lucky, its funny, the more you take control and practise the luckier I become.

I'd like to come back to this. We need to have a real debate on contraception that looks at all the forces at play. I don't think many people are aware at how ignorant many young women are about contraception. Sadly, they are not ignorant about sex, porn or how babies are made, but they are ignorant about what contraception is available to them and, more importantly, that they have the right to insist that it is used.

There is a real problem among young people regarding condom use, for example. A certain section of young men refuse point blank to wear them, and a certain section of young women feel powerless to insist that they either do or to reject the idea of having sex with them. THat's a real problem and one that concerns me far more than children being brought up on benefits even though that's often the end result.

Women have always been held accountable for babies outside of stable, economically sound relationships. Was ever thus. Blaming them, putting them in mother-and-baby institutions, denying them money - none of these things have worked. Maybe it's time for a new approach. Maybe, for example, this group of young men I just talked about would insist on wearing condoms themselves if they thought that they would lose 10% of their benefits or 17% of their income without fail if they father a child they are not living with.

At the same time, let's put a lot more work into reclaiming sex as something that is inseparable from notions of bodily autonomy and good health. It's easy to forget that for some people it really isn't.

After 3 years of looking for a job it really is time to rethink what is going wrong. Are you living in the right part of the country, have you the right attitude, have you experience, qualifcations, are your expections realistic.

Maybe employers favouring grads over older job seekers is also a contributory factor.

What are we supposed to do?

Maybe employers favouring grads over older job seekers is also a contributory factor.

I think workfare would help with this. as they have shown they can work. a bit of voluntary work is a minor positive but FT graft is much better.

Dahlan - I agree with almost everything you say. Yes, young people know lots about sex, but why is it that some young women cannot refuse to have sex if a lad doesnt wear a condem. Why doesnt she get herself some birth control herself - its a very interesting debate.

Where I disagree is when you say that mother and baby institutions dont work. They were horrible places years ago. They wont be now, however for some it will make them think. I dont want to end up in one of 'those' places so let me find out a bit more about birth control myself.

I have a friend who works for a drug company looking at birth control for young people. There is one young girl - 17 years old and has had 12 abotions. She uses them as birth control. She wont take the pill, says she has heard it makes you fat, she wont use the implant, thinks it will hurt to put in, ditto the coil. Wont ask her partner as she thinks he wont have sex with her if she asks him to wear a condom. She has had many partners. The damage she is doing to her body.

So, I agree, how can we get women (or all ages) to look as birth control as something they can control

YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime, workfare doing what? I think everyone is in agreement that businesses shouldn't benefit from this. The other suggestions are areas that are already covered by the voluntary sector or local council. So leave one voluntary position to fill another? What else is there?

Having recruited people myself. I am looking for someone who will stay (at least for a few years) and who will be easy to manage. Honestly, it wont be the person with 4 kids, who has done a OU degree, no recent career and who is mid 30's. What can we do about this? Very little.

Its like men who join dating agencies at 50 and want to meet women 25+. Its because they can. Women of 25 plus will sometimes want to meet them too. Is it unfair. Of course. It makes me mad. My boss was dating a 25 year old and he is 52. It lasted a few years and then her parents stepped in and persuaded her he wasnt a good bet.

Dahlen, as a single mum who has struggled to get the proper contribution from my ex-H - I could not agree with you more.

I would like to see all men who father a child held accountable for their actions & fully aware that they will be held accountable during sex education at school.

Contraception is great, but somewhere at the back of every single person's mind there should be a small thought that every time you have sex, there is a risk you will become pregnant. Species on earth are designed to reproduce and although we have become very adept at side-stepping our reproductive destiny - there is always a risk (hopefully miniscule if you are using contraception properly) that you'll get pregnant if you have sex.

Having worked with young single mums, they are often the first to admit that they would have thought a lot harder about keeping their baby if there was less support available. I'm not for one minute advocating abortion in these circumstances, but I am advocating a different approach to teen pregnancies and sex education in this country. There are other countries with far lower rates of teenage pregnancy than the UK, who are definitely doing something better than we do here.

If I had no experience as a young person and was claiming benefits and people kept telling me at interviews I had no experience. I would grab anything with both hands, to put something on my CV. I wouldnt be sitting there saying 'I dont do this, that or the other'.

handcream, what options do older job seekers with children have?

Post I agree with you. Make the consequences or results of what YOU choose to do to come back to YOU. At present its all on the side of the crap decision you make.

Totem - interesting question. I knew this was coming. If you are working as a middle manager/professional DONT LEAVE YOUR JOB.

I know lots will come on saying 'yes but'...... But it is clear that if you leave your role to be a SAHM you will be at a disadvantage when you return to the workplace.

Once you've made the bum decisions, how can you can recover?

will you be working to provide for your family or claiming IS to support your family. That would be how it is cheaper to fund an 18 yr old at Uni.

No, I will be working to support David Cameron's.

I will either be employed, or I will be on JSA as a job-seeker, receiving exactly the same rate of JSA as someone who isn't studying part-time while looking for work.

My degree isn't costing you anything, darling.

Once you've made the bum decisions, how can you can recover?

generally, it depends where were are in the ecomonic cycle and who you are competing against.

personally, like most things, it depends on how persistent you are. some will, some wont. resilience.

Sometimes a decision one makes means that other doors are now closed to you. Its life. Its how you learn. If for example at school you take 3 A'Levels. You want to go to a certain uni. It demands 3 AAA's. You dont get them because you choose to spend too much time with your girlfriend and out enjoying yourself. Will you be able to recover? Not easily. If that uni was sought after and has plenty of applicants it is likely it is now closed to you.

Have you learnt anything. I suspect you have. My DS senior boarding school does not allow retakes for GCSE. You have one chance and then the only other option is to take a GCSE as a private applicant which is tricky. Certainly it spured my DS on...

My student loan will also be somewhat lower, too (as in 15,000 or so for the whole of it), so from that point of view, I'm cheaper to pay for than this hypothetical 18-year-old.

I think that issue of how to recover from past mistakes is something else we could learn from other countries, too.

Ironically, for all that I think America epitomises a lot of what has gone wrong with the western world, their approach to retraining is a lot more forward-thinking than ours. Here in the UK local further education colleges tend to offer GCSEs and tired old classes in IT for beginners, upholstery and aromatherapy. There are very few courses available in skills that can translate into a viable living unless you go to the main cities or are prepared to learn full-time. American community colleges are a lot more structured around people already working and allow people to take modules on an OU-style basis which can convert to a diploma or allow access to a university.

It is wrong to write off people at the age of 21 or even 16 or 18 because of poor choices or lack of hard work at that age, not just on an ethical basis but on a purely economic one. Funding educational opportunities for second-timers contributes to a skilled and adaptive workforce which benefits everyone.

Instead we have those on benefits being sent on their third CV-writing course in a year.

Totem, I've made plenty of bum decisions in my time & recovered. We learn the most from crap decisions!

With regard to mums getting back to work, I think we are in a better position than we've ever been - although there is plenty more that could be done to make everyone's work / life balance better.

I think you have to be prepared to be flexible if you are returning to work after a break - for whatever reason. You may have to take a job that isn't where you were before, or even change path. You have to be realistic about what you have to offer and what those you are competing against have to offer.