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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To agree with workfare in principal?

706 replies

IAmMiranda · 29/09/2013 11:23

Donning my flame retardant underwear - though note I'm not for the current scheme, but the principal is sensible.

Working for unemployment benefits makes sense to me - provided that the "wage" is fair for the hours and skills. Eg. £90 a week job sellers could equal 15 hours of charity work?

Taking into account disabilities, childcare and other responsibilities I really don't think its unfair to provide people with jobs to earn the equivalent of benefits?

I do think its wrong to line the pockets of corporations, reduce jobs for other workers etc but surely charity work is an option?

I think I've probably missed some huge glaring point but AIBU?

(NOTE: I have previously been in reciept of JSA and would happily have done 15 hours a week and had plenty of time to job search)

OP posts:
Offred · 03/10/2013 10:25

How do you know people on benefits are giving nothing to society?

YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime · 03/10/2013 10:26

(tax burden on that single income is massive)

gosh.
you don't have a clue.

last year I paid 70k in tax.
not income. tax.

the tax on 56k is not large. its barely enough to pay for you and your H's share of the costs of the NHS etc.

you talk about compassion. but you are very focused on you & yours.

you need to get a job.

handcream · 03/10/2013 10:26

Its getting a bit heated isnt it. There is no talk about being punished from Crowther and I. However people DO need to think for themselves. Giving them benefits that increase the more children isnt the right way to go. it also makes it less and less likely that they will ever get a job, if the fathers are absent they are very likely to copy their mothers. Why work when you can do what I did. Of course you wont be rolling in money but you will be OK.

Offred · 03/10/2013 10:31

Tax on £56k is large in terms of the percentage of your income. If you are a single person £56k gives you a great lifestyle but if you're supporting 6 people not so much and the tax burden is the same.

Whoop de do you paid £70k in tax, you must have more money than sense, as evidenced on those thread.

You lot can dress up your comments in whatever flowery language you like but what you are talking about is punishing the poor and vulnerable and women with children.

I don't need to get a job, I need to focus on completing my law degree. It is a much better investment. Besides there aren't any jobs I can realistically. I've tried, you don't know me.

BurberryQ · 03/10/2013 10:33

That people should be punished for having children they can't afford and that there is nothing wrong in principle with forcing people to work for free
but it is not 'for free' is it?
it is in exchange for JSA, HB, Council tax benefit, child benefit, and child tax credit.
For someone with two or more children, that is a considerable amount, and tbh the estates of certain citis are stuffed with people who have never done a days work in their lives and have no intention of doing so, meanwhile raising the next generation of criminal NEETS.
and before people start howling with indignation, I have lived on estates and seen it with my own eyes.

Which government decided to make work not pay?
and then tell us we were so lazy that our jobs would have to be done by immigrants?

TheBigJessie · 03/10/2013 10:34

Of course it is cheaper to put an 18 year old through Uni then a mother of 4.

I have no idea of Offred's circumstances, but the above can only be true if you exclusively mean brick uni by “Uni“.
This mother of two is going via the OU. I won't get anything except a student loan.

handcream · 03/10/2013 10:34

Well Offred, I do undertake some volunteering. Its not easy with a full time job but I always thought, why is it that my DS's are doing well, private schools and all that and some young lads arent.

The two who attacked my dog and burgled my house come to mind. They were looking for gold and expensive watches. They certainly knew what they were looking for. I didnt at 15 know what a Cartier watch was, they did! We got it back because the police caught them.

So, I asked the police for some pointers regarding what I could do. I have met some young offenders. They are defensive, huge chip on their shoulders about what others have. They dont relate this to hard work. They feel its their's for the taking. They claim there are no jobs around (there are - we are in the SE). They have unrealistic expectations about salaries. One said he thought he should be earning about £60k at 25. No qualifications, not one I met had a father in the family. I did briefly meet one of the mum's. She didnt have a clue about what to do next. She did though lie about where her son was during a robbery and now has a record herself.

What can we do about these sorts of families? I dont know. But the dog will never be the same and I am nervous about being in the house on my own...

PostBellumBugsy · 03/10/2013 10:37

Offred, no one is "abusing" you for having four children here on this thread.

Dahlen, a lot of the work I'm involved with is raising aspirations and trying to get young people to see that life can be more fulfilling and rewarding when you do stuff. Child abuse (and almost more shocking is the neglect) is a whole subject in itself and I am very conflicted on how best to deal with that. Deserves a thread in itself really.

NK493efc93X1277dd3d6d4 · 03/10/2013 10:38

If it only kicks in after 3 years (I think) then surely it will apply to a larger proportion of the feckless than if it were to be applied immediately.

handcream · 03/10/2013 10:39

Offred - why are you saying that 'Youare' has more money than sense because she paid £70k in tax!!

Surely you must recognise that people like that are paying for you to stay at home and follow your dream...

With tax like that she will be slogging her guts out workwise.. She will probably be funding childminders, nurseries, cleaners etc. Whereas some....

Offred · 03/10/2013 10:41

No-one is "paying for" me to stay at home.

I am not on unemployment benefit.

Get a grip.

With some of the comments I'm not sure how anyone can say I'm not being personally attacked.

handcream · 03/10/2013 10:41

After 3 years of looking for a job it really is time to rethink what is going wrong. Are you living in the right part of the country, have you the right attitude, have you experience, qualifcations, are your expections realistic.

Or are you actually better off on benefits... Is work just not worthwhile due to your circumstances.

handcream · 03/10/2013 10:42

So, Offred - you claim NO benefits at all?

YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime · 03/10/2013 10:42

No-one is "paying for" me to stay at home.

you have not worked for 9 years.

who is paying?

Offred · 03/10/2013 10:44

I have recently put in a claim for tax credits now I have split with my husband. I haven't received any money. Before that I was supported by my husband. We were entitled to child benefit for some of that time but were not entitled to anything else.

Why is it your business?

Offred · 03/10/2013 10:45

And I'll still be mostly supported by my husband tbh but he now has his own household to run.

Crowler · 03/10/2013 10:47

With some of the comments I'm not sure how anyone can say I'm not being personally attacked.

Offred, I have said absolutely nothing about your situation other than children borne of rape are rare. You, on the other hand, have told me I should be punished (?) for my views. You are unhinged.

Offred · 03/10/2013 10:48

I've not said you should be punished for your views wtf?

Crowler · 03/10/2013 10:49

And being honest it isn't people but women who you and handcream think should be punished isn't it?

Offred · 03/10/2013 10:49

I said you and handcream think it is women rather than people who should be punished for having children...

handcream · 03/10/2013 10:49

Because tbh - you seem to think that you are entitled to do whatever you want. Studying for a law degree is good but with 4 children is that sensible? When you have it you will be competing with young graduates who wont have the committments you have. They will be able to work long hours, you live the in the north where according to some there are no jobs at all.

I love working with grads, would I choose a 22 year old over someone with 4 children - I think I would. Not necessarily what you want to hear I know

Offred · 03/10/2013 10:50

How can that even be read as me saying you and handcream should be punished? Wtaf?

Crowler · 03/10/2013 10:51

I'm still waiting for which of my views are offensive. And to be perfectly blunt, after nine years of being unemployed & having twins, and you and the father of said twins have now split, you may want to consider that you are in fact making some bad choices.

handcream · 03/10/2013 10:52

The fact is that women are left literally holding the baby if the man bolts or has no money. The state is then left to support them.

I didnt want to be in that situation. So, I took control of birth control. I was never pregnant without it being a choice. Am I lucky, its funny, the more you take control and practise the luckier I become.

Offred · 03/10/2013 10:52

You know nothing about me. Yes that is the jobcentre's attitude. Is that sensible? Well I can't win then can I because either I make a go of a good career and realistically need a couple of years support to actually finish that or I rely on the state for support forever and your answer is "well you shouldn't have had children" it is harsh as well as incoherent.

Yes, I think everyone is entitled to expect help to be a productive citizen of the state.