AIBU to expect time to ourselves

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Let me say at the start that I love having days with my family. I know, in turn, we are cherished by kids and grandkids alike. :D

I'd hoped that in our 60s, we could look forward to retirement and unplanned days with no ties.

Instead, we find ourselves repeating early married life eg pushing a pram, standing at school gates in the rain, dealing with toddler tantrums, etc.

Current climate means both parents work and grandparents do childcare from babyhood through to the end of secondary school.

AIBU to expect time for me?

My impression about some of the parents that have lots of family help on hand that they to often take it for granted.

For the record we don't have family help so on the odd occasion (every couple of years or so, that one of the DC's grandparents babysits I am insanely grateful and check it is ok every couple of minutesprobably drive them mad , make sure they have everything they need, buy generous present etc etc.

On the other hand, we were round at the ILs one day, and DH's brother popped round. He was just about to leave , when he "happened" to mention that he and his DP were going out in 3 days time and was it ok for the ILs to babysit? Although it was phrased as a question they had clearly already bought tickets to the show they were seeing and had "assumed" that it was fine for the ILs to drop everything to babysit. My ILs are like you, they love to help, but feel taken for granted. I don't know what they can do about this behaviour - maybe they need to occasionaly say "no"?

redsky my bil and his dw have bought a house near to pils so that she can look after the dc they don't even have yet!!!
My neighbour is in financial difficulty as she had to give up her job to provide free childcare for her dgd while her parents bring in two wages, she has now been told. There's another on the way.
My own mother is nearly 70 and I am watching her run herself ragged looking after my toddker nephew for my sister, it's not even fair on him because its too much for her.
It's an epidemic of selfish entitled people.
I was a lp for years and paid for all my childcare.
I am now a granny and although I'm happy to help with childcare I do not wish to commit to regular days and ds and dil understand this.

Same here guitar girl. Both of our parents our dms stayed home, both has huge amounts of help with babysitting - at least weekly each, Dh also stayed with each set of GPS one night a week. We have no help. No attendance at nativity or sports day, nothing. I have spent at least £40k on childcare.

Another viewpoint OP - you are going to be massively lucky to retire in your 60s, one of the first global generations to be able to "retire" in any sense and unprecedentedly lucky to have the prospect of what could be 30-40 years of "retired" life. Unless you were a massively high earner all your life you won't ever have paid enough in tax and NI to cover the amount you will take out of the system in retirement. This is being paid for (for both public and private pensions) by the generations coming after you who face a much later retirement (if at all) and a massively changed economy. A bit of childcare might look to them like the least you could do to help your children and grandchildren who will be working until their 70s and will have very little pension provision if any, as well as facing massively high housing and education costs.

You will still get your days out but also the pleasure of knowing you've done your bit to make things a bit better for your children and grandchildren - what's not to like?

I've seen loads of grandparents become too involved with their grandkids care, like its their job now. The grown up kids usually justify this to themselves saying "we need 2 full time incomes/we cant afford childcare/the grandparents love doing it."

and I hate to say this but it tells in the kids, they are usually overweight from too many treats in front of the telly with gran having a cuppa (who'd blame her?), also from never walking anywhere as gran has the car, not learning rough and tumble as gran doesn't want them to get hurt.

step back a bit op, you'll do yourself and your grandkids a big favour

I have 3 teenage sons and I never had any help with the childcare. Both sets of DGP worked full time. I worked evenings/nights in low paid jobs until youngest DS was old enough to start school, then paid for breakfast clubs/after school clubs. Nobody ever picked my kids up from school, it was always me. But my mum used to take 2 weeks off work during the school holidays and had the kids stay with her to help me out.

Fast forward to now and I have DD who is 9 months. My parents have retired and have now moved to just round the corner from me. They made it very clear that they were not there to look after DD full time when I returned to work. Which really pissed me off as it had never entered my head, me and DP had already priced up nurseries for her and wanted her to go there, we are used to not relying on other people for childcare.

Ironically DP's neice had a baby 2 months before DD was born and MIL has dropped a day from work to look after the baby for a day whilst neice goes back to work, no offer of help for DD, she will only look after her Great Granchild.

You know, I hate people who whinge about choices they have made and pretend it's something that's out of their control that's just happening to them.

Like people who whinge about being fat but still eat crap, like people who whinge about having no money at the end of the month but have spent the start of the month eating out and buying new clothes, like people who whinge about being tired when they have stayed up the night before. You are whinging about doing childcare, but you don't have to do it. They are not your responsiblity, you can say no, so if you chose to not say no to doing regular childcare, don't be surprised you are doing regular childcare.

It's a choice you are making, you could say no. You obviously don't want to say no or you would, so stop whinging. Yes childcare is expensive, but that is a decision your DC will make with their DP. If you don't want to provide free childcare, you don't have too.

You've chosen this way of life though, or you'd say no.

My parents had no problems telling me that they needed one day a week off when they offered to look after my children when I went back to work. That was fine by me although the boundaries are constantly changing with my sister and her family (who've had free childcare for 13 years compares to my 4.

If you can't say no then you and your family will only end up resenting each other.

My parents do childcare for two days a week because they insist and would actually kidnap the kids from creche if we didn't let them take them want to. The rest of the time we pay for childcare. We chose to have kids and are responsible for taking care of them.

Just say no.

sokmonsta at your parents only getting one day a week off from providing your childcare

You know georgette I hadn't thought of that. My DPs are quite young and retired. Mortgage paid for, holidays abroad bla bla bla. The baby boomers.
I had my children late so as well as having to work much later than my DPs I'll be lucky to see GCs at all, never mind be able to look after them . I am a little envious of ppl who have some family help but I guess that's just the way the cookie crumbles. I get to keep my scummy cherubs all to myself (sharing a bit with DH)

If you don't want to do it then you should say no. There's no point in moaning on here if you haven't made your position clear. You are in no way obliged to do anything.

Many GP's do help out because they like it. Lots of my friend's parents have their GC on day a week, it's not unusual. I don't know anyone who cares for GC full time, but most help out in some way or another if they're nearby. I don't agree with the Mumsnet consensus that anyone whose parents/IL's care for their DC are selfish users. Extended family have been caring for young family members for centuries so the parents can work, it's not a new thing.

Is there a MN consensus that anyone whose parents / ILs care for their DCs are selfish users?

I would agree that you need to speak up but I also think it's a shame your DCs haven't worked out you might want more time to yourselves and actively brought up the subject.

Both my mum (dad still working) and my pil are fab with the childminding but for mine it has always been on an ad hoc basis or at my mum's suggestion. When it was just dd we paid for ft nursery while I was ft at work. My dm did collect her early at say 2pm a few days a week but that was if she wanted to and had no other plans/holidays. It didn't save us any money but we really appreciated the time she was getting with her gm and not in nursery.

Now my dm minds my sister's baby two days a week. I'm not sure if she hasn't taken on too much as it's a long day (8-6) but she wants to try it and has been very open that if it's not working for her they will have to get nursery. She has also been very straightforward telling them when it doesn't suit well in advance so they can make alternative plans eg when she is on hols etc.

It can only work if the gp wants to do it and the parent is appreciative of what it entails. Yanbu to want more time to yourself but you need to tell them that.

I also think the point made above that my generation probably won't be retired with no mortgage is really important too. The baby boomer generation is largely going to have it much better in their later years than I fear the next generation will.

Ah jeepers that was an essay it wrote there... [blushes] We'll all be grandparents by the time you all wade through that!!

I am a single parent and I'm extremely lucky my mum and dad offer to have my child for me whilst I work they take her to school 5 days a week and pick her up and give her dinner 3 x a week. They also have her for the school holidays. They refuse any money for it so I treat them every month as well as picking up bits of food every now and again as well as doing cleaning and ironing and even decorating and insisting they take a kitty for the holidays for days out and treats. I also check repeatedly that they are ok with it and let them know I can put her in childcare if it gets to much.

I don't think that makes ne selfish just lucky and grateful and I know my mum would say if it was getting too much

My mil had just told dsil and dbil that she will not be minding their dd on Mondays from after Xmas giving them plenty of time to sort out new child care arrangements.
She works full-time and Mondays are one of her days off and she has decided that after 3 yrs of minding her dgd that it doesn't suit her anymore as she is entitled to have her 2days off a week like most other people.
This also co-inside wif the recent birth of my ds and her dil getting pregnant I think she was worried she would end up with 3 dgc to look after on her time off.
Me and dp we're never going to ask her to help with minding ds when I go back to work it wasn't a even a thought for us and she has previously said she enjoys when we come to visit with ds or she has him for a few hrs if we go out rather than a whole day with any dgc.
I love her for being so honest about it and means there are no misunderstanding when it comes to asking her to babysit!

I don't understand people who assume their parents will do the childcare. They've had their children and it isn't their responsibility. My mum had DD1 one day a week and will do the same with DD2 but it was not assumed - she offered and wanted to. She feels guilty when she can't for any reason - to which we always tell her that she is doing us a favour, it is not her obligation or responsibility.

My neighbour is in financial difficulty as she had to give up her job to provide free childcare for her dgd

Had to? Presumably guns were involved? Why didn't she just say "no"?

My mum does all my childcare one long day and then 2 nights/one day. I wouldn't have been able to keep my job if she had said no she did want to . My nan did all my mums childcare.

During summer holidays I put my DS into play scheme and was going to do it everyday but she told me not on the days she usually has DS. She loves having him and misses him when I am leave.

I hope that I can forward it on when/if my DS has children. If you want time out then say so if my mum wants any days/weeks off then I just book annual leave.

I don't know why my neighbour didn't say no. I can only assume she thought it was the fine thing. She's is very timid and I can imagine it was hard for her to say no.
Maybe her selfish son and dil shouldn't have out her in that position in the first place or maybe helped her financially as she is doing them a huge favour.
She told me they "can't afford childcare" cos of course two full time wages can't possibly pay for anything can they?

I agree with georgettemagritte you're lucky to retire as young as you have and your kids and grandkids probably won't get that luxury. You said the current economic climate means both parents have to work, I'm guessing that means they need both salaries in order to run the household as opposed to one salary and the rest on childcare? I'd want my kids to do better than me, and knowing that the next generation will be the first since WW2 to do significantly worse than the previous you may have to help out more than you thought to try and lessen that burden for your own.

I can't speak specifically for you though, this is just in general, they may be able to afford childcare but just want to take advantage and save up for a world tour or something, in which case tell them to do one!

I agree that you need to push back.

I am a SAHM because with my DH working full time and long hours our options are for me to work and have a nanny or for me to stay at home.

It never entered our heads to ask our parents for childcare. For one, we chose not to live near either set of parents. Secondly, it is our responsibility. We pay for some childcare. It's very expensive and is our "luxury" in life instead of nice holidays.

My DParents wouldn't want or be able to help on a regular basis. They would be resentful, and I respect that.

My PILs are too busy running around after DH's siblings and their children to help us. They have no lives of their own and are facilitating the careers of DH's siblings. It's very distressing to watch them struggle with our DNs and don't get me started on the impact on diets and discipline.

My parents had no support or help with childcare from their own parents and so took the view that they would make life easier and nicer for their own children, by helping out with their dgc.

A lot of dual income families are not using the second income for luxuries - they genuinely need it to keep a roof over their heads. That being the case I think that parents should help out a bit with childcare if they are retired and fit enough to do it.

That said, I don't think its fair to expect full time childcare and I think that couples shouldn't just keep on having babies that they couldn't afford childcare for and just assune their own parents are going to provide it.

Maybe if people are going to expect massive involvement from their own parents those parents should be consulted as to how many kids the couple should have.