To speak to the school?

[Orchwoid]

I've just been to collect my son from his school and he's told me that he won't be cast in his school Christmas play but all the other children will.

I am fumming. I am going to go and speak to his teacher first thing tomorrow morning but I am so angry that I can't work out whether I'm being reasonable or not.

That's exactly what I have said the whole time looking

And in that sense, I agree with you. But the part of your posts that I was taking issue with, is that you have also been saying that Christmas isn't Christian. It is Christian.

I also think that the OP handled it badly, primarily in getting hostile straight away before discussing rationally and trying to find a compromise with the school, and in the double standard that actually some forms of Christian celebration are actually OK.

When push comes to shove, if you want to suggest who was most wrong, then the School were following the OPs written instructions. They legally had no choice but to do so. Yes, perhaps they could have found some middle ground, but at the end of the day, they had to follow the instructions that the OP gave them, which they did.

If, for example, I'd said to my school 'the children mustn't be allowed to buy sandwiches in the lunch hall - they need to choose a hot lunch', I would expect the school to to follow this instruction. If they'd come home and said something like 'I'm not allowed sandwiches at the picnic...' I'd think that the school were being a bit odd, but I would see how it's perfectly possible to interpret my instruction to follow this. Then I'd go the school and politely and rationally correct my error. I wouldn't blame them for following my instructions.

when I first saw this thread I fully expected it to disappear shortly afterwards as I thought it ws so clearly a joke, in fact I was surprised to see people responding seriously to it. Now, to my amazement, I see that I was wrong and its all real. I must live a very sheltered life but I had no idea, no idea, that there were people in existence who really are so incredibly unreasonable. No 'god shit' but miffed at being left out of a religious festival? You couldn't make it up.

Its mighty entertaining to me, through my computer screen, to read this bonkers-ness but the poor poor teachers. They follow the parents wishes and the parent still thinks they're in the wrong

Teachers across the country, I raise my hat to you.

Even People of the Book who are happy to use the Our Father as a prayer draw the line at worshipping Jesus as the Son of God if they are not Christian. Which is the focal point of a Nativity play.
We were also very particular about which carols we sung in our 99%+ Muslim intake school.

And there we are back to the point. Parent says to school "I want my child withdrawn from all religious assemblies and anything that involves God"

School does so. That's what should happen, and what happened here. As I said, a teacher who tries to fudge this issue so a child won't feel left out is likely to get into trouble.

It is possible that the school didn't handle telling the OP's son very well. But the were absolutely right to exclude him from a Nativity a play.

Contacted then earlier than SEPTEMBER filee?!

I have the very solution....they should phone OP each and every morning to discuss the days curriculum and check whether OP is agreeable to each and every aspect.

Of course, if things need to be amended it well take a little time. But to keep the OP happy I'm sure she wouldn't mind, nay she would insist, on a 5am reverse charge phone call Just to get a daily clarification on what she finds acceptable that day!

Oh and thank you to the poster (can't find you now to name you) who explained above what fumming is and saving me from googling it...I had no idea

I agree with exotic
Schools have quite enough to do as it is and the OP made her position quite clear.

I think if I was a teacher dealing with the OP, I'd now be at the stage where all agreements and discussions were recorded.
So when she decided something, and then changed her mind, and then wanted summat else, my arse was covered in case she went postal.

Only got to page 9. I have a short attention span.

So what happens in RE classes? Is little Damien excluded from them too? Can we ask for exclusions because we don't like the subjects now?

What about science? Can't get my head around them dinosaurs. I've seen that Predator versus Aliens documentary a few times and think they have something to do with evolution.

Maths - a man fills a bathtub with a tap dripping every 3 seconds... No use at all.

French - wont be going to France any time soon and don't know any French people. Can't all foreigners just speak English list like wot I do?

Latin - oh come on, you're just being silly now.

PE - unless its Xbox or wii based, then there's no use. He will have a car when he's older anyway. Besides, I don't like washing muddy kit.

If I were a teacher dealing with the OP I also would refuse to see her in any way but a formal situation fully recorded in writing and with a senior member of staff present.

The OP is not talking about being excluded from christmas she is talking about being excluded from the christmas play which is the NATIVITY play.

The nativity is religious and if the OP told the school she didnt want her child to take part in religious things that would include the nativity.

The nativity is not a winter play it is a religious play.

Blimey. This entirely fictional dilemma has got everyone excited hasn't it.

I wondered what OP's next installment will entail. Withdrawing her child from school entirely, because they won't rewrite the Nativity as a Godless story with her DS starring as Richard Dawkins?

can't believe I nearly missed this thread, thank god and all that shit for most active threads.....trying to resist googling 'fumming' fear my eyes will bleed

I googled.

Bleurch.

Did Louise ever turn up?

not so far, have stuck the other thread in my watch list though so I don't miss anything

I am unsurprised that filee refuses to address my point - that if the school staff have to contact parents to double-and triple-check everything with them, even when there are explicit and clear instructions from the parents in place - then they will have NO time to do any bloody teaching.

I wonder whether FamiliesShareGerms has a view on this point??

This is the first thread on MNet that has made me literally cry tears of laughter. I was so enrapt this morning I forgot to say goodbye to DH when he left for work. Needless to say, he was fumming.

So what happens in RE classes? Is little Damien excluded from them too? Can we ask for exclusions because we don't like the subjects now?

For the specific, and sole, case of RE, yes you can. 1944 Education Act and its successors all enshrine (!) that right.

I got half way through the thread and noticed that MrsDeVere got deleted, I can't believe that a thread could descend to this level, I just can't continue reading this. WTF has happened to Mumsnet

Filee.if you are still here - what's all this about Christmas celebrating a Roman war god??
Are we identifying Jesus with Mithras? Mithraic celebrations I would expect to be slightly different from the C of E services I'm used to. I guess it would introduce a completely new note to the Christmas play...

(Of course it wouldn't help the OP,exchanging oneswet of "God shit" for another!)

The nativity is religious but no one expects you to believe in it that what actually happened. The wise men didn't rock up with the shepherds etc. It's a play which schools have embellished for the entertainment of the parents.

I think being in a play is very different to asking a child to worship in assembly.Worship in assembly or teaching it in RE implies truth. They are asking you to pray or sing to God as a reality. I would understand why the OP doesn't think this appropriate given she doesn't believe.

@the wise men didnt rock up with the shepherds,

that made me laugh

'Mithraic celebrations I would expect to be slightly different from the C of E services I'm used to.'

It could work, turn that nifty little Phrygian cap Mithras wears read, with a bell on the end, replace the bull with a reindeer...
You may well be onto something there Lifehuh.

Botheration,
A red cap
Not read.

This thread really depresses me.
The amount of people who don't think it is ok to simultaneously not want your child to have to attend regular education in a religion in which you don't believe but do want them to take part in a cultural celebration.
Really? You don't be believe in my god, now stay at home and be sad and boring?
Has no-one ever taken part in Diwali? Or Chinese New Year? Or attended a friends hindu or catholic wedding? Whilst not wanting your child educated in that belief system?
I think the op's naïveté and lack of good grammar and spelling and disparagement of other people beliefs have let others descend on her with glee in a way that would generally not be acceptable towards other religion beliefs.