To not get why people hate Dubai so much?

[Cutitup]

What is there to hate?

I think it's a great place to have a holiday. Great restaurants, great service, fab shopping and spa treatments.

I do understand the problems of domestic and construction staff being exploited but this is not a problem unique to Dubai. I just don't get the vitriol, the 'it has no culture' etc.. I say get out of the bitter farm and play with the hay!

I think that if you get into that sort of intoxicated state in the company of people you don't know well, then you are exposing yourself to a great deal of personal risk irrespective of what country you are in.

The law here is what it is. Nobody forced her here at gunpoint. It seems to me that the same people who complain about people wearing the niqab in public buildings in the UK, or the call to prayer on Channel 4, are exactly the same people who think that Westerners should be able to walk into an Islamic state wearing hotpants and down vodka shots to their heart's content.

Respect for other cultures works both ways.

Some of these expat arguements that it's "not that bad" make me rage. You see what you want to see. I am an Expat in Brussels vs Dubai, and I love it - all is rosy my garden, so to speak.

BUT even here, in country not known for it's appalling human rights record there are big issues that could give me a totally different opinion. My child does not have SN and is not excluded from mainstream education, for example, I am not from an ethnic minority, I dont wear a head scarf and work in public services etc. I am not an illegal immigrant living in the train station.

These issues don't affect me, I go round in a little expat bubble of loveliness. But I DO know they exist. All the arguments from the Dubai lovers seem to play down the human rights issue totally - what the eye doesn't see etc.

As was clearly stated already, the difference between Dubai and other countrries is that Dubai is fucking rich and CAN afford to pay and treat its workers properly. The fact that it chooses not to is the problem. Nowt about tax free expats and camels. It knowlingly exploits human beings for profit, and then glosses over it. The fact that people fall for the shit never fails to astound me.

Jesus wept Young you didn't just blame that woman for getting raped because she had a few drinks, did you?

Yes, a nice bit of victim blaming.

Having just re-googled the case, I'm also that her rapist was also pardoned. I guess the only way to pardon her was to pretend the whole thing didn't happen.

Lovely, lovely country.

This person isn't keen:

www.smileosmile.com/misc/the-top-20-reasons-not-to-move-to-dubai-in-no-particular-order/

"The law here is what it is. Nobody forced her here at gunpoint."

I bet she was encouraged to go their by girlfriends like the OP who think only about the spas and the shopping, though.

OP - YABU. See above for why.

I would never go to Dubai:

I've known several people from there and thereabouts - men, including policemen - and what they casually dropped into conversation made my skin crawl.

Human rights
The sheer vulgarity
The type of Brits who like it are not my kind of people (this is my least strong conviction tbh)

Just no.

Yes to the horrible casual language. My old friend always refers to "a Filipina" un-necessarily, as in "you'd just get a Filipina to do that" when I would refer to "hiring a cleaner" or "going to a nail salon". It's either that or "an Indian" when she actually means "a gardener" or "someone to clean the swimming pool". It's very dehumanising and makes her sound like a braying wanker, regardless of the good qualities she still has somewhere.

Wilson - not at all. I just happen to think that women who get smashed in the company of men they hardly know are pretty irresponsible and stupid. Especially so in a Muslim country where alcohol is illegal unless you have permission (and yes, they do turn a blind eye to tourists). None of us know the exact truth of what happened that night. Happily, the woman in question was pardoned.

The point that you are missing whilst frothing at the mouth over 'victim blaming' is that these are the laws in an autonomous, sovereign state. It doesn't matter what what you or I think - they don't care. The situation will continue no matter how many superlatives you use, and there are far more constructive ways to respond than the often ill-informed, melodramatic vitriol on this thread.

It's the epitome of everything that is wrong with this world.

Fabulous place. Have been twice and would go again

Ophelia - if you really think that, maybe you should try to get out more? Or at least watch the news occasionally. No genocide here, it's peaceful, there is enough to eat, no bombs dropping.....

I've only dipped in and out of this thread, so apologies if this has been covered - but those loving Dubai and defending its culture and human rights - what about the ecology issue - no-one seems to be defending that, and for me, that is the biggest reason why I wouldn't set foot in the place.

I would be interested to hear some views on that.

Young, Marte Dalelv, the Norwegian woman, was in Dubai on a business trip. She didn't choose to go to Dubai as a tourist, she was sent by her employers. She had drinks with her colleagues in a hotel, she didn't get drunk with virtual strangers. It was one of those colleagues who dragged her into a hotel room and raped her, a scenario that could have happened to any woman anywhere.

She did nothing wrong: she was unfortunate enough to encounter a rapist. She was doubly unfortunate in that the judicial system where her rape took place criminalises rape victims. Yes, the UK has a pitiful record on getting rape cases to trial, but at least the justice system does not proceed to accuse the rape victim of herself committing a sexual crime.

Malelv's royal pardon after being given a 16 month sentence is an insult, designed to silence her and get her out of the country for fear of further consequences before it gets any more negative rap in the international press. She has not been exonerated, she is simply a criminal left off the hook - along with her rapist! - by royal generosity.

Yes, the UAE is a sovereign state. Yes, it is 'another culture'. Neither fact requires the rest of the world to respect or condone its human rights abuses. There are cultures that do not merit my respect.

Can I mention something I said further up the thread again? Female Genital Mutilation is legal in the UAE. Do we have to 'respect' the cutting out of little girls' clitorises?

"The point that you are missing whilst frothing at the mouth over 'victim blaming' is that these are the laws in an autonomous, sovereign state"

The glaring point that you are missing is that (1) we know that law, and (2) the point of this thread is why people hate Dubai.

One of those reasons why is the one you mentioned: They have medieval laws. Nobody wants to be subject to medieval laws. Many of us use our heads and figure that some shopping and spas are not worth being subjected to medieval laws.

YoungGirl:
"The point that you are missing whilst frothing at the mouth over 'victim blaming' is that these are the laws in an autonomous, sovereign state."

This thread is about why people have a problem with Dubai. People have explained why they don't like Dubai. Similarly, many people disapproved of the laws in 'autonomous, sovereign' apartheid South Africa and Soviet Russia*. Bad things don't suddenly become okay just because they are permitted in another country.

Furthermore, it is entirely possible to disagree with a law in another country but accept their right to have that law (e.g. I disagree with the French ban on hijab).

• I considered a Godwin, but decided against it.

Larry - The reason she has been let off the hook is because she broke the law, as it stands, in this jurisdiction. We can both agree (I hope!) that the law is unfair and draconian, but as a matter of legal procedure this was the best possible outcome for her once she had been convicted. As I said, neither of us know exactly what happened that night, and it may have been a case of mixed messages and inebriation or she may have been unfortunate enough to meet a rapist.

Cote - I am fully aware of the point of the thread, thank you. As the OP says upthread, it is interesting that Dubai prompts such a strong reaction in people whereas places such as Oman, Morocco or Indonesia do not, even though their laws are equally draconian (if not more so). Your opinion - and mine - is irrelevant. The UK itself is increasingly irrelevant. Everything is now made in the East and the region has an exponential number of young people who all need education, jobs, training, healthcare, content, etc and will have significantly more influence on the world than our creaking old democracy, sadly. Maybe that is a factor behind the negative sentiments too?

young girl never respond to these threads, it's pointless. The MiddleEast isn't perfect and I have been here for years but neither are so many other places, the UK is one of the last places I would live in. Just hide it and let the armchair saviours of the world do their work.

The ethnicity of the men is indeed the crux. There is a very clear and acknowledged hierarchy. Gulf Arabs, then Arabs from the Levant, then Caucasian expats, and last those from south east Asia and the Indian sub continent. There is a large groups of wealthy and successful Indian people who might even get nationality and they are different. Different races are paid vastly differing salaries for the same job.

That was not to you Slip

Rape. Having your anus or vagina ripped to shreds and being left bleeding, crawling on the floor.

Then "it is your fault!"

Thank goodness for people who care.

Actually, Dubai has plenty of laws (not all of which are palatable in the west but there are cultural and religious differences in our societies). A problem is correct and consistent enforcement of those laws. That rarely happens when a dispute involves people from different positions in the hierarchy.

Theodora - I think you may be right! Ah well, there are none so blind etc.

Mrs Oakenshield Ecologically, Dubai would appear to be unsustainable. Gulf states are buying land from unreliable African governments in order to ensure food security.