To not get why people hate Dubai so much?

[Cutitup]

What is there to hate?

I think it's a great place to have a holiday. Great restaurants, great service, fab shopping and spa treatments.

I do understand the problems of domestic and construction staff being exploited but this is not a problem unique to Dubai. I just don't get the vitriol, the 'it has no culture' etc.. I say get out of the bitter farm and play with the hay!

That is not my position at all. My position is that you can have what ever principles you like as long as, whenever you have to opportunity to demonstrate your commitment to them, you do so.

As soon as you try defending your decision to ignore your principles, for whatever reason, in my opinion, you loose your right to condemn others for not upholding principles you are not likely to be tested on.

I have no problem with people who completely abide by their position on human rights in all aspects of their lives commenting on where I go on holiday but most of the santinmonious bullshit on here is beyond hypercritical.

You know why people don't like Dubai. But you feel differently. Don't ask such faux naive questions. It's childish.

It is your position.

As you've just made clear. What do you mean by "principles you are not likely to be tested on"? What does that mean, other than 'choices you cannot personally afford'?

And for what it's worth, you've still said that people should demonstrate their principles whenever they "have the opportunity to do so". And I would say that limited means significantly restrict peoples' opportunity to do so.

And as I said either, the factor that distinguishes a holiday in Dubai from other goods and services is that Dubai markets itself as a destination where holiday makers can receive a level of personal service that they can't afford at home. (Due to the fact that we have relatively high standards for employment conditions). The whole edifice is built on this concept. Many people will find it distasteful and it is not analogous to other goods and services.

Lets face it- we are never going to agree on this.

It is not about what people can and can't afford it is about ramming principles and righteous bullshit down people's throats then finding excuses not to adhere to what you profess to believe in when it suits you.

I have never seen Dubai advertise a level of personal service you can't afford at home. You can pay handsomely for butlers etc but you could do that anywhere in the world and you are unlikely to be able to afford it in Dubaii if you can't at home, it is a very expensive place.

15 posts by me, 11 of which were me defending myself while comments [several snidey] were made about my financial position.

Ramming principles and righteous bullshit? not from me.

I didn't specify you amber my comments are genetic to the trend on this thread.

Also, not having the opportunity to demonstrate your principles is not restricted to what people can and can't afford, lots of factors like geography, religion or culture can prevent someone actually demonstrating what they claim to believe it but it is much easier to accept their opinions if they do stand by them were they can or just keep quiet and don't chastise others where they can't.

You absolutely did specify me bearbehind.

Bearbehind Fri 20-Sep-13 16:23:41

Sorry amber but I can't get over the irony of, as you said, an unskilled parent of multiple children living in social housing who's principles only extend to their front door, lecturing others on their choice of holiday destination

You went on about my specific posts about my situation.

Don't backtrack when your posts are still here to read fgs.

You went on for several posts about my specific posts about my situation.

You quoted me on a post above amber and I didn't specify you at all in that post.

You are not the only one on here with an opinion I disagree with and therefore not everything I write from here on in is about you specifically.

Never liked Dubai.

Nothing to do apart from superficial and materialistic things like going to clubs and restaurants. Or the mall. Too hot and no shelter to do anything outside (apart from the water park maybe). Not the most environmentally friendly place.

A lot of people are very much in 'show off' mood, too.

My parents don't like it either. They actually went on a luxury trip to stay at all the different mega-star hotels with gold everywhere. There were families there with kids who had literally no manners (eating food with bones and throwing them on the floor). Reason? Staff told mum that at home, those kids were used to having someone silently clearing up after them, so they behaved the same in the hotels.

My mum was so p*ssed off that at one point, she actually gave a kid what we call 'the look', approached the mum, and told her off.

If my kids were ever like that, they'd be off to the strictest, most spartan boarding school on the planet by tomorrow.

I would like to respond to some of the things on here that are about the Middle East generally and share my knowledge of Qatar where I have been for a long time.
The term "labour camp" has been stopped and accommodation has to have no more than two men to a room and free wifi as well as unlimited ac. This is quite new and I have witnessed this happening.

In my company, calling the administration assistants "tea boys" is a disciplinary offence.

Employers should not hold passports and from 2014 it will be illegal.

There is a helpline for anyone to call to report people being made to work between 11 and 3 in the hot months and also to report people being made to work un safely (for example a man in the bucket of a bulldozer painting a wall which I reported myself and the police came straight away)

As we are considerably richer than Dubai, maybe they will follow suit...

It isn't perfect but I am pleased with the progress that has been made.

Often it is the long standing expatriates and regular holidaymakers who resist this change rather than the locals. I still know people who bemoan the introduction of these measures and are blatantly seeking to be superior beings. Most people do not, they just get up, go to work and treat all people with respect.

Yes you did specify me, you named me in your post that I quoted.

Bearbehind Fri 20-Sep-13 09:02:29

I've heard it all now amber. I can't actually believe you are saying that it is fine to treat people in a manner which you find unacceptable if it results in you being able to buy clothes you can afford

You specified me and included my name in your post, so I responded.

Im sure there many opinions here that you disagree with, but it was me and my personal situation and how that entitles me [or not] to an opinion that you and others singled out.

No, you quoted me by saying Ramming principles and righteous bullshit? not from me yet I did not mention you at all in that post.

I was accused of trying to derail this thread by focussing on your situation yet here you are trying to make it all about you when it really isn't.

I'm bowing out now to leave all of those people, who can't accept that things move on and that Dubai is one of the fastest evolving places in the world, to continue to attempt to make themselves feel superior by slagging it off whilst doing exactly what suits them in many other areas of their lives, whether it is in line with their principles or not.

Considering you had been bleating on about my lack of principles when it suits me, then said;

It is not about what people can and can't afford it is about ramming principles and righteous bullshit down people's throats then finding excuses not to adhere to what you profess to believe in when it suits you

So that wasn't about me and my posts? yeah sure and yes you and others did derail the thread.

Bear, would you be happy to work in a domestic capacity in Dubai? Would you be happy for one of your children to do so? In a hotel, house, spa?

Dubai hotels??? Look at your own bloody hotels, how many UK 5 star hotels have legally employed cleaners?

This is getting really unpleasant and you are ganging up on Bear in the same way you report others.

let it go already, you are clearly the superior beings. The rest of us are stupid and you are great.

Hmmm, thats what the twattish colonial expats think about their fellow humans as well.

Ever eaten a cockle????

Bearbehind

British expats in Dubai would very likely be wealthy in the UK as they are generally professionals and expert in a particular field, which is why they are sought after in Dubai.

There are varying levels of 'professionals'. A lot of those who get big jobs in Dubai would not have gotten them, if they had chosen to remain in their countries. Basically, there are a lot of people there who earn in a month what they may earn here over half a year - if not even an entire year.

And let's slag off all expats while we are at it, nice.

I am quite offended by some of the comments in this thread on a personal level. We live in Dubai, Ds is neither a spoilt brat or rude. Dh is one of only 6 people in the world who does his job and here is an ideal location for all the travelling he does. The school I work in has 51 nationalities and all staff are looked after. Not equally I here you say but then that wouldnt be the same in the Uk as they are not equally qualified. Neither myself or my friends have time to lord it about shopping with leather skinned faces. Such gross generalisations about expats and locals shows a real level of ignorance.

theodora thank you for your support

amber just read some of my very early posts on this thread, I was saying the same thing about hypocritical principles (for all the good it has done me) long before you joined in so really don't flatter yourself by thinking everything I write is about you.

portofino what a stupid question. We are talking about people who chose to move to Dubai to improve their lives and better provide for their families. I would not improve my life by becoming a housemaid. Are you now trying to promote equality for all, regardless of qualifications etc? That would work really well wouldn't it?

Could anyone answer my question about racism?

"portofino what a stupid question. We are talking about people who chose to move to Dubai to improve their lives and better provide for their families. I would not improve my life by becoming a housemaid. Are you now trying to promote equality for all, regardless of qualifications etc? That would work really well wouldn't it?"

I can't believe you actually wrote that!

Apparently it is stupid to take a minute to try and imagine yourself in someone else's shoes.

Wow.

Have also just learned that there is no point in trying to discuss issues of inequality with Bear, because s/he hates the very concept of equality. Ok.