To think that senior officers in the armed forces should use state schools for their DCs

[soul2000]

I think it is wrong that many senior officers have a perk, that in effect is worth 40-50k pa in benefit in kind. There are state boarding schools, grammar schools and all types of state schools available.

Why should public sector employees, have this ludicrous benefit when there are state boarding schools, and if there was more demand more state schools could open boarding houses anyway.

I think this is a throwback to the 19th century, it is totally wrong in todays world. Today schools are having to make massive cut backs in all kind of expenditure, yet some officers DDS/DS are getting lessons in how to stage the perfect dinner party. This paid for by the struggling taxpayer who is forced to educate their DCs by comprehensive..

So it is £ 6454 per term so the maximum pa is £19362 pa then.

op. I think the point is that people wouldnt do the job if it didnt come with a lot of perks

Wanna be a ninja page 4 Told me to FUCK OFF.

Oh, those privileged armed forces children, how lucky they are. Far better for them to arrive in the UK after a posting abroad in say, November, or April, or whenever, and because there parents were abroad and not around at regular transfer times, they will be sent to whatever school can fit them in. And then they'll be pulled out again and off to another posting. And then back to the local special measures school that can offer a place at any time of year.

That's much fairer. If you joined the armed forces, you should accept that you are sacrificing your children's education because some ignorant Daily Mail reader doesn't like to see your children having any sort of continuity of education. You can take your service to your country and stuff it.

Right, OP?

Many in the Forces would say it is not a perk but a condition of service. People sign up for a career in the Forces and know that their DCs shouldn't suffer as a result of CEA ( if the family qualifies and chooses to take this route) or the pupil premium in state schools.

Soul2000 - do,you accept it is much less disruptive, and hence probably better for children to board than to have to move schools every 2 years?

Ahh my apologies, I was looking for a "FUCK OFF" not a "fuck off please" and I missed it

Posted too soon.

I imagine that most parents who use this benefit, do it because they think it is in the best interests of their children - and I therefore think it is a good thing.

Lt Eve. You are quite right i have gone of on a tangent about Downe House even KATE MIDDLETON did not fit in there.

Its because some schools are totally out of touch with reality. I am a passionate believer in state education where possible for everyone.

But unlike a lot of state education believers, i think the state system needs selective education.
I am Sorry for going of on one big rant.

I'm very glad that I will be leaving before DD hits secondary school.

By the age of 4 she had lived in 3 different countries and 4 different houses! Her father spent my whole pregnacy deployed, and away again shortly after birth. DD and I moved to UK, leaving him in Germany when she was 5 months and he finally joined us when she was 9 months.

I extended my final posting otherwise DD would have left her first school in Yr2 and gone to another school, before a final school in Yr5. As it is she will only have to do the Yr5 move thankfully.

I hate the idea of DD in boarding school, but I think it would have been a better choice for her if her secondary schooling followed the route of her primary schooling. Thankfully I retire towards the end of Yr4 and we can settle at last

As I see it, the "state" should only be there as a safety net for people, who are unable to make their own provision, for whatever reason.
I do not think you could describe any state as a democracy, if it removes the fundamental freedom of choice to arrange their own lives from its citizens.
Same applies to education. People are presented with a choice (or should be). otherwise we might as well turn back the clock and all go and live behind the iron curtain.

Cba to read the whole thing but its not a straightforward as you think to claim the Continuity of Education Allowance in HMForces. There are so many myths and I get sick of people thinking we claim "just to send your kids private".

There are very strict guidelines and the allowance does not cover the whole fees whether you opt for private or state BS. There is a ceiling that falls around £12k a year below what most private senior boarding schools charge (the allowance does not cover the full fees advertised on BS websites - it goes to a certain point and we top up the shortfall), which is alot more that the minimum 10% contribution required by the serving member.

The allowance is there to provide continuity of education for children of mobile members (proved to be mobile through a very strict line of command) no matter what service or rank. If a mobile army private can afford the shortfall and all additional expense that go with BS then they can send their DC just as much as some of the senior officers. The allwance is not limited to HMForces but certain other Government depts too.

The allowance is for BS and not for independent school. The current allowance would cover state school boarding fees and the claiming serving person would still be expected to contribute a minimum of 10% themselves.

When selecting your BS it has to be from an approved list provided by the SCEAS (Service childrens education service). This list has both state and private schools on it. They insist you consider a minimum of 3 schools and once you apply you have to state the reasons on your application for choosing the school you have and the reasons for deciding against the others.

You have to remove your child from BS if you remain in the same posting for more than 3 consecutive years (this is a fairly new rule). Once you withdraw your child from boarding you can never apply to claim CEA again.

The spouse of the serving member must always accompany the serving member on all postings and live continuously at the same address.

Every 2 years a new mobility certificate through the chain of command has to obtained to continue claiming.

This is just a small snippet of some of the rules, there are loads more but I will be typing all night, but it is certainly not handed out willy nilly.

However, there like with all benefits and allowances in all walks of life - people that take the piss out of the system. However since the review a few years back I fail to see how it would be possible for people to continue claiming without meeting the new requirements, which are heavily checked and audited. You are right, this is a massive allowance and they are desperate to cut it and so yes they are making it very hard to claim (compared to a few years ago), to continue claiming and heavily audit those that do. There is also a telephone number to report people suspected of claiming the allowance but breaking the rules.

As a parent of DC at BS thanks to this allowance (2 DC with 9 schools behind them before now) I can say we considered lots and lots of schools. When considering leaving your child - you have to "click" and actually like the place. When actually faced with a decision as to where you will leave your children having absolutely no idea where in the world you may end up in 2,3, 5 years time, its damn hard. We found schools which we liked the school side but were not happy with the boarding side and vice versa.

Out of loads and loads of schools it was very hard to find one that we liked for both our DC (it was important to us that they remain together) that we liked both school side and boarding side. We considered both state and boarding schools but one thing that really was top of our list (for us) was that the school must be within a couple of hours drive from relatives - who could get there in an emergency should we be overseas or the other end of the UK. This limits your choice of schools per se.

Another HUGE and important factor was that the school should be a proper FULL boarding school. By this I mean that it does not empty out at weekends with just a handful of kids stuck there at the weekend. We may live an hour down the road from the school at one point so close enough for weekends home but we may live abroad 12 months later. Lots of state and private boarding schools claim to be FULL boarding but when you dig deeper on school visits and actually ask for exact numbers of kids in beds on Fri,Sat and Sun nights - you get a very different answer.

Another huge factor for use was cost. Despite the generous allowance I would say 75% of schools were unable to be considered as we would struggle to pay the fee shortfall and extras that go with BS.

What I am trying to say is that when you narrow down your serious realistic options - there actually is not that much choice of school for parents requiring a proper full boarding school able to cater properly to the requirements of Forces families, with their short notice moves anywhere across the UK and world. In a perfect world there would be lots of state boarding schools providing proper full boarding provision. Sadly, although some do,not many of 30 odd State BS do. Likewise in the independent sector - being able as a parent to have the choice of both sectors widens our choice of being able to find the most suitable school.

In case you are wondering - we are considered "Junior ranks" definately not officers and we have used both (changing at the end of junior/prep at age 13).

Thank you Real. For the reasons you choose a private school. I can see you looked in to other realistic options. I have no problem with that at all.

i just wanted for people to consider that in the current economic times.
That it can look a bit extravagent. I really wish you could have found a state boarding school that could have offered you, all your Dcs needs.

"it can look a bit extravagant"

That is, I think, the problem. Building and staffing additional state boarding schools would not come cheap. And if all Forces (and OGD children) had to have state boarding, then the places would have to be found. It's a highly variable population - no telling from year to year how many pupils there would be, nor when pupils might cease boarding. You'd have to have quite a lot of surplus places, and in any/all year groups (because families can opt to board at any time), plus good contingency plans for dealing with demand over supply (bulge classes and hotel accommodation?)

It sounds counter-intuitive, but it's probably cheaper to let the (much larger) private sector absorb the risks and costs associated with the varying numbers.

The way I see it is that there are pros and cons with all jobs. A pro of the military is there is the possibility of boarding school for your kids. A con is that you might get your leg blown off.

Can't say I'm having kittens about it - I'm still bf ds though so maybe that has reduced my fertility

Soul

You say 'You have no problem with that at all'

You really do have a bee in your bonnet about something!

Have a good day.

This is something I really couldn't care less about, and am bemused anyone else would.

What extra tax payers pay out on the education of a few children could be saved by cutting a nuclear weapon or fighter plane or two. I think the cost in the big scheme of things is probably pretty minimal.

some officers DDS/DS are getting lessons in how to stage the perfect dinner party.

Thank fuck someone is. I'm sick of substandard ones.

I would love to have taken a Pru Leith course in cooking. I'm rubbish at cooking and my SIL who is brilliant and has done a course like this always impresses her boyfriends with her skills.

Still thinking that some people have a chip on their shoulder about anything they cannot afford and others can. Just life really.....

My dad was RAF.

I started primary abroad - so a year late compared to peers.

We returned to UK and I attended a further 3 primary schools - in one case (due to a bit of a balls up with postings) I spent a single term at one primary.

I ASKED to go to boarding school, joining my sister. Bumping about school after school is no way to be educated, and it is no way to learn to be part of a peer group.

It was beyond basic - no dinner party lessons, in fact, our choice of subject at GCSE was less than the local comprehensive.

It was a financial struggle for my parents to make the top ups required to do it.

You have expressed a vastly ignorant opinion. I suggest you post on the DM chat site instead.

This is utterly bizarre. You don't have a problem with certain people's justifications, which is the reason the CEA exists, OP, and instead seen to have a bee in your bonnet about certain very exclusive schools which Forces personnel can choose to send their children to.

How do you even know that calopene's case is claiming CEA if the wife has her own money? It may just be the done thing in her family and the fact her husband is serving is a red herring. News flash: some forces personnel don't qualify and still foot the bill for boarding in case. Those are more likely to be officers because they're more likely to afford it.

Sidenote- As for 15% of French children being in private schools there's a distinction between fully Indy (hors contrat) and state subsidised (sous contrat). A lot of 'bilingual' and religious schools are sous contrat so the state still funds a significant proportion.

i have gone of on a tangent about Downe House even KATE MIDDLETON did not fit in there.

So what? Do you think that aged fifteen (or whatever) she had some special aura of who she might marry fifteen years later? All sorts of people don't fit in at all sorts of schools: by all accounts Prince Charles (who actually was a member of the royal family at the time) didn't like Gordonstoun, while a former colleague of mine who went there on, I believe, an armed forces scheme loved it.

Nom. Let me explain. Meditrina has put a reasoned point across stating why the Armed forces use private boarding schools, ok i accept that.

Real has stated that they looked at 3 other schools before choosing one
thats fine.

The problem comes along when choosing the very best most exclusive schools, on the basis that they are the best. It is not fair on most taxpayers. Some taxpayers cannot afford school uniform for their kids.

Is it wrong to question why a state funded organisation, where possible can not use other state funded organisations.

Obviously if there are not enough state boarding places available, then private education has to be used. They are all types of private schools not just ETON/HARROW/DOWNE. These schools are far removed from the ex direct grant grammar schools of the 1960s/70s that were forced to go private.
The Etons/downe's of the country, continue to breed the arrogant and out of touch toffs this country needs to get rid off.

I believe where possible, armed forces children should be educated amongst more normal people, not russian billionaires sons/daughters.

You may not like what i have said,/you may think i am of my head.
you have asked me to explain my "BIZARRE" reasons.

the Calopenene's case is not my posting, infact i dont even now what there taking about.

Children whose parents are required to move frequently due to work commitments have a hard time. Continuity of education in a high quality environment is the least the taxpayer can do for those DC. If we want committed people in the armed forces we need to show some commitment to the personal sacrifices they make in return.