to think the idea of a mansion tax just penalises London and the south

[Redpipe]

I will probably get flamed for saying this but I don't believe that owning a 2 million pound house automatically makes you rich. Certainly in London a 2 million will not buy you a mansion, more like a terraced family home.

AIBU to think that the idea just penalises people in the south?

Bizarre that some of you who would champion the right for a pensioner to stay in their 3 bed council house they have lived in all their lives, would be more than happy to have this pensioner move out of his house that he bought and paid for simply because the price of it has gone up.

There really do seem to be some jealous people about

Government policies from the Thatcher era onwards have always favoured the South East so you are rather naive to expect northerners to feel sympathy for someone in an expensive house the equity in which has been acquired by the boom in prices caused by government policies which allowed the South to prosper while the North was decimated.

I'll save my sympathy for those pensioners in the North living in poverty in cheap houses because government policies destroyed the jobs and communities their livelihoods and property prices depended on.

MrsCB, it's possible we'll end up with generations sharing homes as was often the case in the not too distant past, or as happens in families from cultures where it is not considered undesirable. I think we've arrived at a strange place where families are scattered and older parents live alone, miles from their DC and DGC, in their dotage.

My own DM is strangely resistant to the idea but she's a Boomer so has certain expectations.

Quangle, it's only 1% of the value above £2M, your house would have to rise in value astronomically to land you a £36K tax bill.

redpipe please link me to the place on this post where you have shown empathy for those families. Let's put it another way, you are neighbours with a person who lives in a house worth a great amount of money. My bets are that your house is also at risk of the mansion tax and actually you wouldn't want to pay it, which is completely natural. People who live in London already gain from a whole host of advantages which other people living outside of London don't have.

^ What TheIncidental sai

Said even.

I'm not jealous. Why would I be?

And I said I felt sorry for the man but you know he does have options. Its not as though he's being made homeless. He may have to move to something smaller or as I said before he could release some equity in his house to pay the tax.

And when cut backs are happening all the time in public spending - well I just don't think there is going to be a great deal of sympathy for people who are forced to pay the mansion tax.

A £2million limit on mansion tax would exempt the vast majority of people in the South East. Where people in the South East do get unfairly penalised is the lower end of the stamp duty threshold.

It makes no sense that the first band kicks in at £125k (1% of purchase price) and the second at £250k (3% of purchase price.) Those figures mean that it's bloody hard to get a one bed flat without stamp duty in much of the South East. It impacts many areas of the UK, but the South East more than others. Added to that, the fact that someone buying a property that costs £550k pays the same percentage stamp duty as someone buying a property of £950k does not seem fair.

I would like to see the starting point moved from £125k to £200k, so any less than that means you don't pay stamp and the other bands adjusted too so the 4% band moves to £750k to £1million.

"But why should they be forced to downsize, leave a home which they have spent most of their lives in because the tax system requires them to pay massive amounts to others."

My lord but the entitlement of the wealthy never ceases to amaze. Those of us in homes worth considerably less than £2m have to move and downsize and make adjustments all the time for financial reasons. I'm unclear why being wealthy makes you exempt from... life?

One, you have the tax wrong, as InMySpareTime pointed out, so all this fury over your wealthy neighbour's situation is a bit pointless. And two, yes, without exception, anyone with a saleable asset worth £2m is wealthy.

It took a whole seven pages before the ol' Politics of Envy argument got wheeled out.

Chocolate
redpipe please link me to the place on this post where you have shown empathy for those families.

Seriously? I have been replying to posters in regard to my OP. The OP is not about the numerous other problems that society has like moving for work etc. FFS!

havant gard

That is a really good point

I've fucking heard it all now! If you have a property worth £2m you're not rich. F.F.S.

Yabvvvu. Anyone in a £2m home can take some of the pain being dished out to the poor, disabled, ill etc.

The stamp duty point I completely agree with, particularly for first time buyers in the SE. I wouldn't want to be young again and trying to buy my first London home.

Oh maybe I misunderstood sparetime. The description I saw was of a standard £2 or ££3k per month. But if it was 1pc of value over £2m how would they value it with house prices fluctuating so much?

It's all very difficult. I understand where this policy and, at the other end, the benefit cap come from but they have some really odd and unintended effects, mostly because of the problem of London house prices being so out of control. We are already seeing our school demographic changing because of the benefit cap.

The mere fact that you asked this, frankly naive question in the first place, shows a lack of empathy and understanding of lifestyles different o those of you and your neighbour.

Somebody who has a house worth £2mil will have worked to pay for that and has paid a lot in tax their whole life and thus supported the poor, disabled, unemployed.

Yes, SirRaymond, they will have worked hard for it. And for their efforts they now own a £2m asset that they can cash in. I'd say that's a pretty impressive reward for the work and taxes paid. I wish them well with their £2m, I'm glad they have benefitted, but that does not make them any less wealthy.

They might've inherited the £2m house.

I don't think it matters how you came by the £2m, hard work, inheritance, whatever. If you've got £2m, you are rich.

Exactly topics. The fact that many people benefitted massively from the house price rises due to luck rather than judgement, or whether they worked for it, is irrelevant. As someone up thread said, if you are sitting on a 2m saleable asset then you are wealthy. It's quite simple!

OK our london home (since 1992) has been valued as worth 2.8m in it's current state, 3.4 if we spend about 150-200k on it. It's Vict semi (with about 9 inches between it and the next house) has 6 beds and downstairs space because it has been extended to within an inch of its life. A mansion it isn't.

Mansion Tax alert: at the beginning of the year DH bought an unloved gated townhouse in zone 3 for 975 (ish) we have spent *bout 150 on it and it has been valued at 1.4.

Our main house will now be refurbished and sold with no CGT - the differential has already gone into zone 2 two bed flats in trust for the DC

We have thus avoided the mansion tax, avoided CGT and planned for IHT. All perfectly legally, all in a way that suits us because there is no. Way we will pay more tax than we have to

Has been a hard year though combined with a new full-time job but really looking forward to the new arrangements now. .

Yes they will have worked hard but take the examples of two old men who work equally hard and earn similar wages, one in the North and one in the South.

The one in the North will have much less equity, in fact in some areas his house could be worthless as government policies destroyed industry and the communities around there. Homes in areas which relied on industry are almost worthless as there are few people wanting to buy in. His children all have to move away from the area to find work so he also ends up isolated. Health and life expectancy in those areas is also compromised.

The one in the South ends up with a huge amount of equity, not as much through his own hard work as through geographical good fortune

I will save my sympathy for those who have not had money handed to them on a plate by the policies of successive governments