to think the idea of a mansion tax just penalises London and the south

[Redpipe]

I will probably get flamed for saying this but I don't believe that owning a 2 million pound house automatically makes you rich. Certainly in London a 2 million will not buy you a mansion, more like a terraced family home.

AIBU to think that the idea just penalises people in the south?

Crowler the post is about whether a mansion tax disproportionately affects people in London. It does. However people in London are disproportionately benefitted by a whole range of advantages over the rest of the UK so it seems fair that only those living in the very expensive homes should pay a tax.

Why don't you invest your savings in a property investment portfolio then? If it's such an easy way to make money?

Perhaps it would be better to review couoncil tax banding and put a couple of higher bands for more expensive properties? This would not be a mansion tax but an extension of council tax. People with few liquid assets could continue to claim council tax benefit?

Also, I hate georgeosborne, I said why not just take 5% of the bank accounts of the wealthy. Do you object to that?

well that sounds more sensible vickibee

I find it funny that people want all the advantages of unearned wealth and price increases but get all angry when it is suggested that some of that unearned wealth be taxed so that those who are actually in work earning peanuts can pay less.

If you have made a huge profit by luck (i.e. huge house price increases) then you have not earned that money, the only labour attached to it is the original price you have paid. Why should someone earning significantly less in an actual job have to pay more tax so that you can benefit from doing nothing.

Crowler, I cannot afford to buy one house to live in, let alone a property portfolio. I'm glad to hear Vince Cable talking about a land value tax. He's about the only libdem with his head screwed on in my opinion.

Ophelia, do you view all investment income as luck?

ihategeorgeosborne, you could certainly find a fund that invests in property and put your money in it. I'm not suggesting you buy a building.

Anyone fortunate enough to live in a £2 million house is wealthy, wealthy, wealthy in my opinion. How could anyone argue that they're not.

chocolate - the figures re London living come from the ONS.

Crowler, the difference is that other investment income is subject to tax such as savings tax and capital gains on shares. There is currently no tax on peoples main homes when they sell it.

Sorry Crowler, I didn't answer your question. You asked if I objected to taking 5% from savings accounts of the wealthy. That depends on how you define wealthy. I find most governments seem to say higher rate tax payers are wealthy, i.e. those earning 40k a year. They seem to get clobbered every time. It's about time we moved away from this and taxed property instead. As I've said previously, there are many higher rate tax payers who cannot afford to buy one home to live in.

If your house is worth 2m you should be paying tons of tax, because you are rich.
Most people can't afford to live in London so they don't.
If you choose to live and work there it is going to cost a fortune.
Maybe companies will struggle to find a workforce and move further North, creating jobs in areas of deprivation/less lucrative. I think that would be fairer.

If your house is £2mil chances are you have paid tons of tax, probably far more than if your house is worth £200k!
If someone is rich, and we have seem many examples on this detailing how you could end up with a £2mil house without being Rockerfella, that surely that is their business and no-one elses.
To get to that stage through hard work or whatever you will have paid a fortune in taxes along the way.
There really are some green eyed entitled monsters around.

SirRaymond, good luck. I've been mentioning that houses are an after-tax purchase for some time now, but some people have taken a view that it's all dividend income taxed at 10% or possibly not at all.

ophelia
But there is a tax when they buy. Presumably when you sell your main home you also buy and stamp duty is proportionate to the increased value.

Also there will be tax to pay if the home is inherited after death. So yes tax is applied to property

Crowler I have absolutely agreed with your posts, and also those of Raisins

ihategeorgeosborne

Have you ever thought that those earning a 40K a year that get clobbered every time may also have had a property in London that is fast getting to mansion tax levels.

SirRaymond and Crowler, You don't want the government to tax unearned wealth. I don't think it's right that the government should tax earned wealth. What do you think they should tax just as a matter of interest. Who do you think should pay?

I'm completely against it. If you bought your house at a much lower price and it has appreciated over the years it's just a paper gain and I don't think gains should be taxed until they are realised no matter what your wealth. If you bought at the £2m+ price I'd also argue with Crowler & Sir Raymond that it's highly likely you've paid substantial tax along the way.

Where I was raised you do pay capital gains on your primary residence. You can deduct inflation and certain expenses. I'm not all that keen on that tax either but do think it would be fairer than taxing what will be in most cases, paper gains.

why do some posters presume that people in London a) moved there rather than were born there b) are high earners because they live in a house that very recently has massively gone up in value c) think London's transport system is cheap

There may be some Redpipe, but the most of the people I know on or around 40k have bought ex-local authority homes that need a lot of work or they rent where I live. We've been priced out see.

ihategeorgeosborne: I don't think the government should be taxing wealth at all.

You still haven't answered my question. Why don't you take your house fund and put it into a property market index fund?

ihategeorgeosborne and Chocloate

Can I asked what you think about the potential for someone who
bought years ago and didn't pay much for the property, property increases in value and they get lumbered with paying mansion tax every year, then before they come to sell the market collapses and they don't ever realise the valuation?

The valuation of a property is never real money until it's sold or bought.