to think the idea of a mansion tax just penalises London and the south

[Redpipe]

I will probably get flamed for saying this but I don't believe that owning a 2 million pound house automatically makes you rich. Certainly in London a 2 million will not buy you a mansion, more like a terraced family home.

AIBU to think that the idea just penalises people in the south?

turniptwirl

This tax is based upon the premise that if you have an expensive home you are a high earner. This is simply not the case and it will penalise those who are not high earners and leave only the mega rich in many areas of London. If you support that it's up to you.

Redpipe the tax doesn't assume anything other than if you have an expensive house you have more responsibility to contribute than someone who lives in a very cheap house. I'm curious to know if you would you feel more comfortable about the mansion tax if it excluded pensioners?

It is equally unfair the other way round though Redpipe. What about people who are classed as high earners, i.e. just in higher rate tax band. They lose child benefit and pay higher rate tax. Many in this situation cannot afford to buy a home of their own. This isn't right either.

Just makes a lot more sense to me to impose a higher tax and on very high earners. At least you know they have the money rolling in.

Chocolatehunter, they've already contributed - a house is after-tax income.

I live 40 mins from central london by train in a naice area with naice schools and 400k would buy you a naice family home (and I despair because we cannot afford that on skilled local wages :( :o )
of course a 2mill house is rich when compared to the rest of the UK, even to alot of us in the home counties darling

I thought people who lived in housing association houses were being taxed on bedrooms? surely that is far worse, being taxed on a house you don't own, on a room you may need but not need all the time when you are poor anyway

Not everyone in social housing is poor. Just as not everyone in private housing is rich.

Crowler, i have also contributed though. I live in a very poor area and have to pay a much higher proportion of my wages in council tax than someone living in London as our rates are not only proportionally, but actually higher.

My income tax is also spent on things like the train network and the tube when public transport where i live is non existent, (a bus to Cardiff is once an hour from my local station). Furthermore I have to have a car because of said public transport so also pay all those related costs, tax, insurance etc. Driving is London is not essential so Londoners aren't forced to pay those costs. I also pay a stamp duty, which because I live in Wales is sent up to the UK gov to spend on what they favour (which is always London and the SE). I'm sure many other people from other parts of the UK feel the same so we don't have the same sympathy towards a person who's house price has increased so dramatically that it puts him in the same league as high earners.

chocolatehunter

I think it's unfair for lots of people but I think it's easier to move and re start a life in a new area when you are younger or even when you first retire but this mansion tax could adversely affect older people (80+) who have lived in their houses for years and years. Some born in them.

The ones I know think the price of their home is ridiculous (those who even know) and they don't see it a real money. They are right because it's not real money unless you want to move miles away. The price of their house has no bearing on how they live day to day. I only know of one older person who has released the equity and moved far away. The reason the others haven't is because the local community and friends are too important to them at this stage of life, they have worked have a small pension and like their life just the way it is. I know one elderly resident who has never been out of their borough, and to move somewhere cheaper would mean a move much further away, probably out of London.

To make assumptions of someones wealth based upon the value of their property is mad.

To the posters that say they could pay the tax by drawing down against the property, what happens if they do this for years and then prices fall before they sell? They would have paid a tax for something which was never realised.

I understand that it's not the worst thing in the world but I think some people can't see passed the £ signs.

I did expect some of the replies though because many people seem to think if the streets of London are paved with gold

Indeed Owlady - in Glasgow there are families clamouring to move into smaller houses but unable to because they are already in arrears because of the bedroom tax - housing assoc says it won't rehouse. What can they do?

I think perhaps the south east doesn't quite realise how tough it is fir the rest of Britain. Lots of things are not fair in austerity Britain, paying extra tax on your £2M house is really not the worst of it.

Redipe, would you be more in favour of a mansion tax if it excluded pensioners?

Chocolatehunter, why don't you move to London then?

I don't know any rich people who live in social housing, well apart from the queen and those that live in national trust properties owned by the council

I don't think people who privately own houses are rich either, but a couple of million? really, that is not well off/rich by most peoples standards?

most people sit and watch location, location, location and escape to the country like this because the amount of money people have to spend on property is alien to them. it's not making assumptions about people, it's a factual comparison to someone else's life surely...unless they are one of those couples that never buy the house, a house anyway. there are always lots of them. Are they bullshitters? i don't know. Am i going off ona tangent? most probably

Chocolate
No I just don't think mansion tax in it's current form works. I think they should properly clamp down on corporation tax before they start on bedroom tax, mansion tax etc.

owllady no, nobody is being asked to pay tax on spare rooms. Some people are having their subsidy taken away for extra bedrooms to encourage them to downsize and give space to those with larger families who need that housing and can't afford it without subsidy.

The taxpayer NOT subsidising someone for a benefit they don't need is not analogous to charging someone for something they have bought out of their own money for no particular reason other than you can.

Why not be like Cyprus and take 5% off everyone's savings accounts? It's the same thing and maybe not quite as unfair as at least those people have the cash to pay. (No, I don't really want that either - just making the point that both ideas are driven by envy and by the ease of any govt to collect such a tax)

I can just about see your point op, but it's just one of those things. Everyone is suffering. If you have a big house you have bigger expenses. Unfortunately life is getting harder for everyone. Why should the higher rate earners be exempt?

I am also a higher rate tax payer, if that makes any difference. I chose not to live in London so I could afford a lovely home without paying 2 million for one - I can't afford a 2 mil house for the record.

Crowler why don't more people who live in London move out? Spread the wealth a bit. They could buy a cheap house in my area, do it up amazing and spend the rest of their money in our local economy instead.

owllady Bob Crow?

Chocolate it's true that council tax is very low in some London boroughs. However,averagely, the cost of living is about 25% more for a person living in the capital than anywhere else in the UK.

Londoners pay more for their: clothes, food, eating out, entertainment, transport, child care and just about any service you can think of.

Owllady. I know well-off people in social housing but, equally, I think it would be silly to deny that a person living in a privately owned £2million plus house is not in a position of great privilege.

however, as taxes go, this proposal is kneejerk. It's a panic, retrospective tax that's not fair and won't even bring in that much money.

Chocolatehunter, I haven't been listing off all the reasons that you have such a geographical advantage over me. If I had, then you would have a point.

I agree with Voiceofraisin. Why not just take 5% off of everyone's bank account who fits your criteria of a wealthy person?

Bob Crow lives in a council house?
or am I Bob Crow? (i am not for the record ) :o

The bedroom tax has affected those with joint/part custody of children though and those who are disabled and need an extra therapy type room (or need to sleep separately) and that isn't fair. It's not just to do with 'taxpayers money' a lot of people who live in social housing, work and they are taxpayers too.

I really think the taxpayer argument has gone too far. I get it quoted at me with reference to disability services being cut at a local authority level (my dd is disabled) The local authority seems to have forgotten that these people and their carers and families are (or could be) taxpayers!

Nancy, clothes in the high street cost the same wherever you go. Your transport is actually cheaper and more frequent and reliable in London (i work in London sometimes and am always amazed by how cheap transport is compared to home). Your council tax is cheaper and I couldn't comment on childcare because i have never used childcare services in London. However our children in the Welsh valleys start school at 3 to allow parents more opportunities to work which is a huge benefit (not so much for those who cant find work though. Food also is the same in the SE but you have a wider selection which can distort things. Petrol is also much cheaper. London isn't actually a more expensive place to live day to day except for the cost of housing.

How is taxing people's savings fair? Jesus, I've been trying to save for a deposit to buy a house for the last seven years. If you take 5% of my house deposit savings, I'm buggered. The fact is that house prices are predicted to rise 5% this year alone and 20% over the next five years. This is unearned wealth and should be taxed in my opinion. Perhaps it would take the heat out of rising house prices too. I don't understand why property wealth seems to be such a sacred cow, when taxing hard earned, productive income and savings is fair game.