to think this class system only exists on MN?

[GildedWingsOfGrace]

All the time I hear "middle class" bashing on here.

Or "working class" guilt. Only on MN.

I wouldn't have a clue what class I am or what class my friends are, or the people I work with are.

It doesn't even occur to me, and I never hear it mentioned in day to day life

I don't think her friends would care,it's not like they are any better than her.

Green- I can't comment as I am not working class so I don't know if these friends were doing a good imitation- all I know is they tried very hard to shake off their prep school, holiday home and ski holiday filled childhoods, and did surround themselves with friends completely different to this.

Scrlett maybe the friends were not deprived though not all working class children are from deprived backgrounds with chaotic households not al working class people are deprived or poor or chaotic

I know, usual, that's what's so sad really.

Yes, I can understand that. Most teenagers do rebel against the social conventions they are brought up with - it's all part of becoming an adult and deciding what you think is important.

I don't mean to sound snippy, by the way. It's just that I really am working class, and work with young people far more deprived than me, so I get a bit defensive sometimes.

I agree mrsjsy.

WC doesn't automatically mean deprived or poor.

No, these friends were not in the least deprived, they just were not middle class. They all came from families where the parents worked and had lots of trendy clothes etc, but were still unmistakeable as working class.

I think it also is important to remember that there is almost a sub group now that are very different from the traditional working class. Working class doesn't mean poor or deprived.

See I'm WC and get defensive about all WC being portrayed as uneducated, on benefits,deprived etc.

Not all of us are.

Many WC people have well paid jobs,own houses,read books,eat nice food have degrees etc.

Working class didn't used to mean deprived or poor. But it sometimes does mean this now. It seems to me that everybody is trying to escape from the working class... somebody up thread said earlier that working class meant being on benefits these days.

I think the clue is in the word 'working'.

Exactly Murder. I think usual may be assuming that her sister is trying to put on some sort of an act, out of insecurity or a pathetic attempt to climb the slippery social pole. It may be no such thing - perhaps she just is that person now. We all change between childhood and adulthood. It doesn't change the fact that she grew up with the same class background as usual, but neither does it mean she can't evolve as a person in any way she chooses. It doesn't necessarily have to be about fakery.

My sister could say the same thing about me, but to be honest I've never spoken with the same accent as my sister since we were about 10, nor been drawn to the same sorts or people nor had the same mindset on everything. It doesn't mean I'm pretending around my friends, any more than it means she is pretending around hers - but it is true to say that we have very different types of friends, and always have.

We were brought up in a very typical lower middle class environment, but she has always leaned towards the WC, while I have always leaned towards the MC in the things that we just feel most comfortable with. Neither of us are pretending anything.

*See I'm WC and get defensive about all WC being portrayed as uneducated, on benefits,deprived etc.

Not all of us are.

Many WC people have well paid jobs,own houses,read books,eat nice food have degrees etc.*

It gets right on my wick it is if we are all on the cider battering our children and running wild , although the people families greenbannas is talking about do exist of course and it is tragic how some people live but we are not all like that ,

I have seen in the last 10 years or so the wordsunderclass being used it makes me shudder

I think the clue is in the word 'working'.

do middle class people not work then

Working class used to mean you worked in some kind of industry that made/sourced things nothing more nothing less.

I remember a friend saying something snide about working class people. She shut up when I pointed out she was also working class. As am I. I don't usually discuss class work friends, there are more interesting things to talk about but it annoyed me.

Before WW2 you could tell what class a man belonged to at least, by kind of hat they wore apparently. Britain has been and remains a rather strange place.

I also have heard the word underclass and agree it is a horrible word. However, this group is in my opinion very different to the tradional working class.

It's not a popular opinion, but there is a class lower than working class. No intention of working, no aspiration, basically Jeremy Kyle types. To want to escape the stigma of being lumped with these as working class by people ignorant if real life is quite understandable in some cases.

Oh yes mrsjay, have been told I can't "even be WC class because [I] don't work, hur hur hur" Fucking idiots.

Before WW2 you could tell what class a man belonged to at least, by kind of hat they wore apparently. Britain has been and remains a rather strange place.

It so is , wasn't the class system created as some sort of census ?

Yes, the underclass thing is horrible. These are people trapped by circumstances, and even the feckless cider-swilling mother who neglected her children is probably a product of her own neglected childhood.

I live in a neighbourhood where we have more than our fair share of feckless cider-swilling mothers. I wish the media would see them as people instead of animals, and I also wish that middle class folk didn't assume that everyone in my neighborhood lives like that. We don't! This is a strong community where we support each other, . Mostly without judging.

OMG

You can't say the underclass are Jeremy Kyle types, that is awful. Wash your mouth out.
The underclass are those that don't work, hence are not working class.
They are individuals and can have as many manners and morals than the other classes. Some attend church and are respectable members of the community. That is just an awful comment.
I hope it is through lack of intelligence, not a serious slur.

I live in N Ireland and there seems to be less of a definite labelling of classes due to the obvious religious division and also because the schools here are more a mixture of backgrounds. Of course there are well off people and less well off, but there doesn't seem to be the same mindset as to a person being a particular class. Also a large majority of well off people here are only a generation away from what was very poor background. I grew up in a well off home, but would not have known it was such until I was older. We wanted for nothing but were not spoilt and had to do part time work from we were 12 in family business. Both my parents had their own business and were very successful. I consider myself as working class, my attitudes certainly are. But I know in 'English' terms we would not be considered so. We own a number of properties, both have professional jobs, etc.

People who don't work are not necessarily the underclass. It's quite offensive that you think that. I'm quite shocked you'd lump decent people into the underclass, potato. It's the people that have, as I stated, no intention of ever working, as a lifestyle choice, breed feral children indiscrinately, etc. I'm going to be generous and assume you haven't actually visited the real world.