to be surprised by how many people are anti-immigration?

[Mimstar]

I was called naive today. Apparently 'if you aren't concerned by immigration, you've got your head in wonderland'.

And I thought - actually, I know hardly anybody else who isn't anti-immigration.

I'm trying to understand this attitude, it seems so common nowadays. Maybe I do have my head in wonderland.

I'm so tired of hearing 'job stealers!' type comments.

fledtoscotland, a Home Office research study found that, in 1999/2000, first generation migrants in the UK contributed £31.2 billion in taxes and consumed £28.8 billion in benefits and public services – a net fiscal contribution of £2.5 billion.

More recent work by the Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR) found that migration has a positive and growing impact on the public finances. By 2003- 04 it was estimated that migrants contributed 10 per cent of government receipts and accounted for 9.1 per cent of government expenditure.

The country may be on its knees financially but the figures suggest it is not because of immigrants!

Source

In my experience people who are not concerned about immigration are those least affected by it. Living in an inner city the effects of immigration are everywhere: schools are overflowing, doctors and dentists are not taking new patients on, social housing lists have a 5-10, wait, hospitals are at bursting point.. You can argue until the cows come home but we simply do not have the resources to accommodate the number of people.

trouble is that the EU policy of free movement and benefits for all is fine in theory. In practice not too many Britons are going to go to (for example) Romania, are they? So we are now over-crowded.

I am a third-generation immigrant on both sides. My forebears came here in the 1920s not speaking the language and were initially supported by friends and relatives. They never claimed nor received any government support beyond health care as needed when the NHS came in. They learnt the language quickly, got jobs, got on.

Come to the UK by all means - but do what my relatives did. What we are doing now is not sustainable.

mum I live in inner city and cope just fine.

What I don't get is why you are so sure that those issues you are describing are caused by immigrants, given that immigrants pay in more than they take out of the system.

There could be a multitude of reasons for those issues...spending cuts caused by general economic climate, poor planning by local councils, lack of foresight, and general inefficient use of government resources come to mind.

I would love to see figures that support your view, though.

specialsubject loads of Britons move to Spain, Australia, US, etc. A poster up thread produced figures which suggest levels of immigration are lower than levels of emigration.

Sorry, my mistake, the emigration levels are not lower than immigration, however when these figures are looked at together, net immigration is tiny compared to the existing population.

Must read figures better.

Oh grow up! - YABU

Jaqueline I felt that way last night so left the thread, though as it's progressed I'm relieved to see that the anti-immigration camp haven't actually been able to come up with any reasoned and logical arguments to support their view.

I'd also argue that this country is NOT on its knees financially. Greece, for example, is on its knees financially. But even if it were - as discussed above, immigration is most certainly not the cause.

I hope all those fretting about infrastructure, waiting lists, etc, are limiting their families to one child, or none at all.

Britain needs immigrants, to say it doesn't is to focus too much on the short term. Even the current government has acknowledged this.

If the immigrants don't come to Britain then we will have an even bigger problem having to sustain our ageing population in 50 years, which will mean just as much pressure on public resources as we are seeing now.

Its either immigrants coming in or more people having larger families. Either way, we need more people to keep us afloat in the long term.

Instead of telling people to get out, more energy should be spent on improving infrastructure to cater to a growing nation. This is a natural progression of things IMO. Britain should be aiming to improve its infrastructure anyway. Things have been left to stagnate and we are not keeping up with the times. Britain is essentially becoming less progressive and is therefore loosing out to other nations who are looking to the future and preparing for it.

Oh dear!!

Sorry for repetitive posting

Computer seems to have developed a life of its own!

Mango I think it's misleading to look at it on a one family basis. Someone claimed above that only the top 40% of earners are net tax contributors; based on that supposition, the majority of immigrant families, like the majority of British families, are likely to be net 'takers'.

Therefore you have to look at the whole picture - as quoted by Belle Jolie above:

"a Home Office research study found that, in 1999/2000, first generation migrants in the UK contributed £31.2 billion in taxes and consumed £28.8 billion in benefits and public services – a net fiscal contribution of £2.5 billion.

More recent work by the Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR) found that migration has a positive and growing impact on the public finances. By 2003- 04 it was estimated that migrants contributed 10 per cent of government receipts and accounted for 9.1 per cent of government expenditure."

Incidentally, I'm surprised by your experience re schooling and healthcare. My only experience is the US and Canada and both countries offer immigrants education and healthcare (such as it is in the US!) I'm not sure about other benefits because I've no experience of them.

Immigrants who work and contribute = good
Immigrants who take up resources = bad
State encouraging the former = good
State encouraging the latter = bad
State not encouraging bad immigration plus not making provision for immigrant numbers = why there is a backlash.

Immigrants who work and contribute = good
Immigrants who take up resources = bad
State encouraging the former = good
State encouraging the latter = bad
State encouraging bad immigration plus not making provision for immigrant numbers = why there is a backlash.

The latter is the correct one

A family of 4 who are here with limited leave to remain would likely be entitled to no child benefit and the same goes for tax credits. They would not be entitled to Housing benefit nor to go on the council housing list.

To repeat, recent arrivals with limited leave are not likely to qualify for NHS hospital treatment.

Ah but first you're going to have to figure out how many low wage (define that, and be sure to include whole family incomes) immigrants are here with kids in schools, etc.

Please be sure to compare them against anyone in the UK on a low wage or benefits with children in school as well. Who's the bigger draw over a lifetime?

I live in a relatively well off area. We have lots of immigrants. All the ones I know are higher rate tax payers - we had to prove we earned over that level to get enough points for our visas.

All the great fun happens when you go into the areas people are complaining about "never hearing English spoken" (see the lovely racism up thread) and pointing out that the people they're complaining about aren't immigrants, just second or third generation and in their community speak the community language. Their English is, in fact, fine.

As for benefits, almost none are entitled to any. Certainly not automatically. That changes for asylum seekers. Why? Because asyl seekers aren't allowed to work, and yet that pesky food/shelter thing is a problem when you'd fled persecution with very little. So yeah, asylum seekers get benefits until a decision is made whether or not their application is upheld.

A little facts goes a long way. Faithful Daily Mail parroting does not.

Quite, Ragusa, and I actually feel a bit ridiculous drawing a line between 'British' and 'immigrant' families when, thankfully (IMO) so many families in the UK are both!

There is a big difference between being anti-immigrant and anti-immigration.

I am sure immigration is great if you are rich and can pay cash employ a Romanian or Thai cleaner for peanuts or if you are Tesco and can pay peanuts wages subsidised by the taxpayer so your profits go up.

Not so great if your wages have gone down significantly because the Polish builder who is your competition can do the same job for half the wage because he is prepared to live in a mouldy room with 4 other men. Also not great if you have been pushed to the back of the social housing queue because the Romanian family that just arrived in the UK are officially homeless and are more of a priority need than you or if your child has missed out on a place at the local school because there is so much more demand.

There is a big difference between being anti-immigrant and anti-immigration.

I am sure immigration is great if you are rich and can pay cash employ a Romanian or Thai cleaner for peanuts or if you are Tesco and can pay peanuts wages subsidised by the taxpayer so your profits go up.

Not so great if your wages have gone down significantly because the Polish builder who is your competition can do the same job for half the wage because he is prepared to live in a mouldy room with 4 other men. Also not great if you have been pushed to the back of the social housing queue because the Romanian family that just arrived in the UK are officially homeless and are more of a priority need than you or if your child has missed out on a place at the local school because there is so much more demand.

There is a big difference between being anti-immigrant and anti-immigration.

I am sure immigration is great if you are rich and can pay cash employ a Romanian or Thai cleaner for peanuts or if you are Tesco and can pay peanuts wages subsidised by the taxpayer so your profits go up.

Not so great if your wages have gone down significantly because the Polish builder who is your competition can do the same job for half the wage because he is prepared to live in a mouldy room with 4 other men. Also not great if you have been pushed to the back of the social housing queue because the Romanian family that just arrived in the UK are officially homeless and are more of a priority need than you or if your child has missed out on a place at the local school because there is so much more demand.