Am I being unreasonable to suggest that scooters should be banned on pavements?

[Morgause]

An hour ago I went up the lane to pay the papers. The pavement isn't particularly wide but not very narrow either. A little girl aged 3 -4 scooted past me quite quickly which made me jump a bit as I hadn't heard her coming. I looked round to see her mother with a buggy quite a way back down the lane. She shouted the little girl's name and told her to wait.

I walked past her and into the shop round the corner and paid the bill. As I came back around the corner the mother had caught up with the little girl and she had begun to scoot on again. Unfortunately she scooted straight into an elderly lady just leaving her gate and they both went flying. I called an ambulance and other neighbours came out to see what could be done to help. It looks like the little girl has broken her arm and the old lady may have broken her hip or her leg - maybe both.

The ambulance man said that scooters are a "bloody nuisance" and if kids aren't falling off them they are ploughing into people on them. He thinks they should be banned anywhere but gardens and parks. The local bobby, also present, agreed.

I think the same after what I saw today. M (the old lady) is the sole carer for her elderly husband who is very disabled following a stroke. Goodness knows what will happen to him now. A neighbour is with him for now and is hoping to contact someone from social services for some emergency care.

I think scooters are fine used properly. Kids have to stop for people, cars, animals and when told. Kids need to be next to an adult while scooting.

Not that long ago, wasn't the debate "kids get driven everywhere these days, we never let them out, they'll get fat because they never get exercise or fresh air..."

At least it's exercise, and scooters have probably got more kids out and about since they became popular (and that was well over then years ago).

Scooting probably isn't as good an exercise as walking is anyway. But the issue is the lack of control that too many parents have of the child when scooting which leads to other people getting hurt. Normally just a little knock and maybe a bruise or two but in cases like this they can lead to severe injuries.

Hm. I'm in a dense part of London and I almost never have a problem with scooters coming towards me.

Surely that's bad parenting rather than a problem with the scooters themselves.

YANBU to feel this way but I don't think it should happen. Although yo be honest I'd like to see cars banned in my town before scooters.

I regularly see on mumsnet posters recommending that small children use a scooter to go to nursery/school etc but in my experience, children on scooters are very hard to control and are a danger to themselves and to other people.

My children walk everywhere. I used a pushchair until they were old enough to walk.

YANBU. Scooters have been a bit of nuisance round where I live, but since the local primary school PTA in their wisdom installed scooter racks, they've become a nightmare.

We used to have around 5 to 10 toddlers on scooters closely supervised by their carers on school runs. Since the scooter racks were installed, there are regularly around 15-20 KS2 children on scooters. The pavement is 3-person wide and pedestrians are intimidated by the children whizzing past, sometimes shouting at them to get out of the way.

There have been minor accidents and many bruised ankles. One child was going very quickly and had to do a sudden stop at a junction. He let go of his scooter which carried onto the road and caused a car to swerve and crash into a wall. Luckily no one was hurt.

I phoned the police but they didn't want to know. Surely if bicycles aren't allowed on pavements, scooters shouldn't be.

Some good news. Son just phoned me and he's with his dad. M has broken her thigh but as far as they can see her hip is not broken. They are going to X ray or scan again tomorrow, he wasn't very clear. She will need an operation to set her thigh but for now she is as comfortable as it's possible to be in the circumstances

One of the things I did like about the US's legal eagle culture was that in a case like this the scooters' parents could be sued for a quite a lot of money, it really does focus the mind on managing kids behaviour more.

No you are not!!! If kids on scooters were supervised properly I'd not care. Don't really care about bikes on pavements either IF they are ridden with care and consideration but too often scooters are not. I can't count the number of times I've had to step back suddenly or step to the side as a child scooters past followed by an airy 'sorry' and a laugh from an adult half a mile down the road. Pavements are meant to be safe places to walk for everyone, including the infirm or elderly.

Yes, there are many families who seem to drive and then get the scooters out for children (and the toddlers) to scoot the last 50 - 100 metres - why?

I agree that walking is much better exercise for children than scooting...and my DCs have been doing a half-an-hour walk each way to/from school since they were about three - it's easily doable.

And don't start on the cheaper, rattly ones......

YANBU - I've almost started this thread every time I've done the school run for three last couple of years.

DD's primary has 550 pupils, when you've got them all coming out, loads of them on scooters, younger siblings on scooters, toddlers, dogs... it's a bloody nightmare.

We also have kids on them in the early years of our local secondary - so 2-5 years worth of kids on scooters without supervision.

I shall add this to my 'things I've learnt from mumsnet' archive.

I suppose I am guilty of viewing scooters as a wholly positive thing.
DD is 6 and often scoots to school as do many of her peers. We could walk but she likes it and it is quicker. I think she is safe and considerate ie doesn't go fast on pavements, or push past others, stops if someone is coming.

Her 2 year old brother is another matter.
I am guilty of indulgent smiling. I am quite proud of him for being able to do it. He prefers it to going in the pushchair and obviously it is better exercise for him than just sitting. He is far too slow to walk the school run so it makes my life easier than wrestling him screaming into a buggy. When he was very small he couldn't go fast anyway but now I've started to think that I need to enforce a wrist strap on pavements. I would be mortified if they caused any injury to someone else especially someone elderly or vulnerable.

I still think a ban is going too far. It just needs more consideration.

Scooters are taking the joy out of walking for people who do not want to buy into it - and it is not as good exercise as walking and everyone managed to walk prior to the scooters phenomenon taking off so all in all, the only benefit I can see is parents who can't be bothered to get their arses out of bed earlier in the morning to factor in a reasonable walk. What is the point of teaching children that they can hop on a scooter rather than build up stamina by walking? How long are they going to be able to keep it up or are we emerging as a nation where everyone will soon be scooting from toddler-hood to grave?

"One of the things I did like about the US's legal eagle culture was that in a case like this the scooters' parents could be sued for a quite a lot of money, it really does focus the mind on managing kids behaviour more."

The way I read it, the old lady was leaving her private property and joining the pavement. It's clear that cars must give way when crossing the pavement, so I'm not sure the old lady suing would have a happy outcome.

He is far too slow to walk the school run

Leave earlier?

Cars must give way, which I do, but what if a boy is hurtling down a hill at the speed of light on his scooter and he is barely above my car windows?

It's not the scooters coming towards me that are an issue (so far) its the ones coming up behind. A lot of smaller children completely and utterly believe that they have right of way and I fully agree that that is a lack of training on behalf of the parents. And I swear you wouldn't believe the amount of times the parent just says be careful bob with no attempt at apology for the person they have nearly taken out

When is bigger children they are much faster and although they seem very spatially aware I have winced at some of the gaps I have seen them squeeze through

I agree that they shouldn't be banned but maybe scooter awareness courses through youth clubs and schools as for bikes might be an idea

you should reverse into a drive if you can

Oh and don't get me wrong, i know scooters and fun and useful. My three have scooters but they have never used them on the school run. They are very aware of the rules round people ie go on grass or walk past

And they know if anyone tells me different I will wrap the scooters round their necks!

inabeautifulplace the old lady was on foot.

Son has popped round this morning to ask me to write down what happened, he's going to ask everyone who was there. I didn't ask but I expect he may be thinking of at least seeing a lawyer. The old couple are not well off and residential care is expensive.

M had a "comfortable night" but A is very distressed at "what's going to become of them".

Interestingly, my child scoots for at least an hour every day. The only time he's ever been involved in a pavement accident was when he was running, not scooting. He was jogging along about 2m ahead (desperate for a wee!) & an old lady opened her car door right into him. She was mortified, but no damage done.

they dont need to be banned but people do need to be careful on them.

But. Couldn't she have looked where she was going?! I'm not really sure it's the mum or girls fault, they ARE allowed and are pavement users too, so given that they are commonly seen and to be anticipated couldn't she have looked both ways upon emerging from her gate?

They are not allowed on the pavement. The only vehicle allowed to use the pavement lawfully are 'invalid carriages' (Highway Act 1835).

'Unpowered scooters and skateboards cannot legally be used on pavements, footpaths or cycle tracks as they have no right of way, but the DfT admits it is not very practical trying to enforcement the law.'

To all those claiming that 'my child has never caused an accident on one' - other than the extreme cases as described in Op, you couldn't possibly know. Most of us would force a smile or shrug off what could reasonably be described as an accident such as a scraped ankle or bruised thigh so don't assume that.

Westiemama it would be interesting to know if this is current
Unpowered scooters and skateboards cannot legally be used on pavements, footpaths or cycle tracks as they have no right of way, but the DfT admits it is not very practical trying to enforcement the law. Local bye-laws can be created banning them.

If so, is this LA not encouraging parents to break the law?

www.myjourneyhampshire.com/schools

WestieMamma I've already explained this. The child was hidden from view by the 3ft fence until M got to the gate. M stepped out onto the pavement, and would most likely have looked both ways before going any further, had she not been knocked off her feet by a child approaching at speed. If the child had been walking there would have been no collision, why is that so hard to understand?

Thanks for that link, though, it looks as though she may have a case to sue the mother. I'm not sure how I feel about that to be honest.