Friend fraudulantly claiming tax credits as a single mum

[OrangeFlower7]

I am getting increasingly exasperated with hearing the woeful stories from my friend - she and her husband 'split up' at the start of the year but are now back together / still living together. She is always saying how skint she is, since getting married (was a single mum beforehand) as her tax credits claim stopped. So, when they split up, she started a new claim as a single parent with a low income. He has a full-time well paid job. So now they get housing benefit for their 1.1K/month rental house, a high tax credits award of about 10K plus his money from his job...it just seems a bit unfair for her to keep moaning on when we've been struggling with DH being made redundant and getting by on some self-employment but really trying hard each month to get the money together for the mortgage bills etc.

WWYD? What should i say next time she moans on? Do you think, I should report them for tax credits fraud?!

Report, surely. Don't make ultimatums unless you're prepared to carry them out.

In most cases, the ultimatum will spark a dialogue that will make the situation clearer and force the claimant to jump one way or the other.

its not a crime btw its contractual fraud and shit knows a lot of decorated business people have built their careers on that ...cough.. misselling..cough. . credit crunch... cough.. murdoch newspapers...cough.. fayed...cough...

two wrongs never make a right, cough cough.

One thing that this thread has taught me is to trust no one.
SIL reports you....
Friend reports you.....

One thing this thread should teach everyone who is prepared to take it on board, is don't brag about how you are wilfully playing the system, like it is clever to do so. Working to the rule of honesty means there is no need to worry about being 'outed'. The system will provide for those in need, and if your circumstances change, the UK system is far more able to cope with changes than many other countries (who have precious little in place!).

According to the DWP it is a crime and a prison sentence can be given.

It can get a prison sentence. Not long ones, months rather than years. It could get you a prison record which might getting work difficult. If a friend was shoplifing regularly, wouldn't most of us beg her to stop? Press on her that it isn't worth the risk.

A couple in our group of friends was boasting that they had been claiming WTC for many years that they were not entitled to. He also only pays a fraction of the tax he should on his self employed income. They were saying they had received over 75k they were not actually entitled to. Fools. They have been reported

You can report anonymously online, just google ' Reporting Benefit fraud'. It is very easy to do.

This clipe culture is poisonous and destructive to society.

Be open - when the money and tax credits topic next comes up, ask 'are you sure you can still claim now that you're a couple again?' If she's dismissive and says something to the effect of 'well, if I can get away with it I will' then you can say that you wouldn't like to be in her shoes if she was caught. Give her food for thought and a chance to change track.

Daisychain01

The Torys are the government in power during the worse recession since WW2, so they are acting on our behalf by trying to deploy taxpayers's money correctly, to those in greatest need, not those who play the system. No point Tory-bashing!

Please enlighten me, I am , "The tories are trying to deploy money correctly to those in greatest need" Try telling that to all the people who are sitting with no benefit at all whilst waiting for an appeal and not much help to aid them with it due to the tories taking away Legal Aid. It is those in greatest need that are being damaged by the actions of this Government and people like the OP's friend.

Also bear in mind that they seem to be deploying a lot of your money into their own pockets via stupidly high wages, employing family members, eating in restaurants that you subsidize, selling their westminster homes to friends so they can rent it back at your expense. Do I need to go on.....

OK so I decided today to have a chat with her and just said, I was concerned about what might happen if the tax credits people were to check up on her and she said that he is renting a room at a mates and has just been staying back with her a bit as wasn't well and has been off work. Whew. I'm glad I talked with her rather than just reporting it, it does sound like they've got problems and the last think would have needed is more stress. I hope that anyone reading this, make doubly sure the facts before thinking of doing anything like that.

Orange, fine, but your OP was very misleading then. If you reread what you wrote originally, you talked about being increasingly exasperated because she was moaning on continuously. You also say in your update

I hope that anyone reading this, make doubly sure the facts before thinking of doing anything like that

Maybe you should be doubly sure before vilifying your friend on AIBU?

diaimchlo in the case of people appealing against a decision, that is a red herring in the context of the Government deploying taxpayer money fairly and correctly. Isn't that the point of assessing and adjusting benefits? People can appeal, it doesn't necessarily mean they are right.

Clearly you resent people such as MPs being paid for doing their job. Stupidly high wages? Just lazy thinking - they are paid a fair salary for the work they do.. Have you ever engaged with your MP to find out what they do in your constituency? I know my MP and believe they do an excellent job on local issues and have been very responsive when I have asked for help.

Just proves what i said earlier, that one should always check their facts
The OP, wrongly suggested that her friend was cheating the system.
I was under the impression that her friend had actually informed her of this. However, this was not the case. The OP just assumed.
At least the OP admitted that she had made a mistake.

Are they together or not? I was under the impression that you couldnt have ur partner staying at all if u claimed as a single parent.

Nickname they can stay a limited amount of time but it is very limited and I wonder if she's inadvertently gone over that. It's still a slightly dodgy situation if he is staying for any length of time even if he is renting elsewhere.

Nickname they can stay a limited amount of time but it is very limited and I wonder if she's inadvertently gone over that. It's still a slightly dodgy situation if he is staying for any length of time even if he is renting elsewhere.

Not that old wives tale again.

There are no rules regarding over night guests and how long they can stay for even if you happen to be having sex with them.

As long as they maintain there own accommodation and they usually reside there and you do not engage in certain activities (those that are used to decide if you are cohabiting as if you were married) then you are breaking no rules.

There are some circumstance that would be perfectly legal to have a single claim even of someone else did live in the same house as you.

I think NotDead's post needs repeating:

fwiw I think it is MUCH better that poor people fight amongst themselves to blame each other, I need my time to drive down wages, rebuild society so there are real barriers for the poor and construct a way for tge tax system to keep my workers alive whilst I pay them less than they could live on were the tax system not subsidising my businesses in this way. Reporting, in fighting, and battling for scraps will stop the poor from interfering with this strategy. We can't have them challenging employers about the living wage, or retailers about profiteering on low cast food items or moaning about free education.
If people are so poor they can't live then we need people to think its because they are lazy or criminal..(mind you we can MAKE them criminal if we make them poor enough..note to self.. )otherwise WE get all the shit... and that interferes with our lifestyles and annoys our shareholders no end

Exactly.

Sock its the usually resides there that is the issue, if he is regularly staying over then they can decide that he's not really residing at his other address and just using it to defraud. It is shaky ground as it is a recognised way of playing the system. There are no hard and fast rules which means they can make it up as they go along.

I have mixed feelings about benefit fraud. Yes, I acknowledge that people who do this are generally in need. It seems massively unfair to kick people when they are down. But still, fraud is fraud.

One of my friends has a dodgy DS who gave up work when he was 35. Didn't like it. He bought a place in France, lives there full-time and grows olives. Growing olives is not a lucrative business, so he supplements his income by claiming that he and his family live with their Mum, in the UK, and claims child benefit for their 3 DCs. She colludes in this, somewhat squeamishly. I do feel outraged by this, particularly as he also claims child benefit in France. There are no checks or safeguards to prevent this happening btw. I wish she hadn't told us, because I feel tainted almost by this knowledge.

The biggest area of fraud is not the large corporations (who do not defraud) nor the benefit claimants. It's the self-employed. We lose literally billions through those who work cash in hand, who claim fake expenses, claim to employ family so that they can enjoy multiple personal allowances etc.

Its interesting whats happened with OP & her friend. From the amount of MN posts/internet posts/Daily Fail stories out there, I bet numerous are positively enjoying playing private detective, getting all excited and making assumptions of their friend's circumstances when they dont have the true facts at all.

Why not just cut to the chase - become the guardian of working class morals whilst government, bankers etc shit on all from a very great height. Fraud is ok if it wears a suit. After all, that kind of stealing from the public doesnt appear to generate as many posts or as great an interest.

Just report everyone we know who's on benefits and if theyre not making fraudulent claims Im sure theyll be super happy to be in the clear having gone through the anxiety of receiving a knock on the door & being thoroughly scrutinised..followed by the exquisite joy of wondering who reported them, working out it must have been a friend, and then feeling suspicious/uneasy/vulnerable/betrayed, regarding friends.

At least the OP talked to her friend first, and then admitted her error too. Would many do that, I wonder..? Particularly judgies who are full of secret envy - & those who call themselves a friend, but would secretly revel in hearing/watching a friend panic and worry after an investigation. Theyd be straight in there, full of false faced sympathy, concern and advice.

NotDead's posts are on point.

Sock its the usually resides there that is the issue, if he is regularly staying over then they can decide that he's not really residing at his other address and just using it to defraud. It is shaky ground as it is a recognised way of playing the system. There are no hard and fast rules which means they can make it up as they go along

Not the case at all. They have actual laws they have to follow and a readily available claimant compliance manual. The law prohibits them from just making it up as they go along.

Granted a less well trained staff member could potentially get a bit carried away and get things wrong but it would be wrong because the rules are the rules.

The only way they could decide that is if they are able to prove the claimant is actually breaking the rules (they usually do this with data matching).

I could go into far more detail and tell you exactly what they look for and what the rules are and how they do, but I'm going on holiday right now and I need to get dressed.

Its google able

Oh, Orange, thank god you talked to her!!!

As this thread (and all the others like it) show, people make a lot of incorrect assumptions about who's scamming benefits. With the lovely government encouraging everybody to assume all benefit claimants are cheats, no wonder it's getting worse.

Some busybody reported me as fraudulently claiming tax credits. I wasn't, but she apparently thought that a working woman with a social life must be raking it in illegally. What happened was that all my benefits were stopped pending investigation, which took two months. I was evicted. I became homeless.

It's a very serious accusation, and the consequences of being accused are dire.

Oh, and I had to give my beautiful, sweet, pedigree cat away to a neighbour I didn't know - because when I was made homeless, so was the cat. It was the neighbour or the RSPCA :(

I have another cat now, but still miss that one.

Daisychain01

Yes I have been in contact with my MP who is a Tory I would like to add and he did help. But to add to that we do not see or hear a lot from him in this constituency.

No I do not resent anyone getting a high wage for a job well done at all, they deserve it.

What I do resent is people who, whilst I respect their right to an opinion, continue to make statements such as "lazy thinking" to someone who obviously disagrees with you.

I speak from personal experience as someone who has worked, after bringing my children up through school, and paid my taxes, only to be affected by degenerative chronic conditions that prevent me from being able to be employed. I have had to claim ESA and endure the "Assessment" procedure you mention. I was lucky in the respect that they had not stopped all payments at that stage when they falsely declared you "fit for work", but now they do till an appeal is decided. It is not just adjusting benefit it is leaving vulnerable people without a penny. To top it off they also have no time limit to decide this appeal so it can take months and in some cases over a year In my case it took 10 months. Where is the fairness in that?

Until you have walked in the shoes of those who are in these positions please be careful with your comments, as one day you maybe in the same position, which hand on heart I do not wish on anyone.

Orange

You did the right thing verifying the facts

I still think this would be an area that compliance might look at closely. Ask yourself this: If you weren't in a relationship with someone, if you had genuinely split up, would you go and stay with them because you'd been off work sick?

Let's face it, he was there enough that a friend thought they were living together.