DD totally fucked up her GCSEs. AIBU to tell her 'I told you so'?

[TeenTwinsToddlerandTiaras]

Of course I won't but I am very, very cross about it. She got 2 Ds, 2 Es and 3 Fs FFS. All through secondary we have had problems with her being disruptive at school, getting detentions, calls about her not doing her homework or engaging with the lessons, getting into spats with other girls about stuff which did not involve her (sticking up for friends).

She was forecast for 3Cs, 2Ds and 3Es which was bad enough but we hoped she would get the extra C through the exams to get into the college course that she was so excited about doing and which we have supported her in doing even though I have my doubts (performing arts) but I wanted her to do something she enjoyed.

We have lectured her, given her 'pep talks', taken away privileges, shouted, screamed at her and now we have the end result - totally crap grades so she will not be able to do the college course she wanted to do and will have to spend the next year retaking as many as possible at a cost to us. I even frogmarched her to maths club one day as she was so behind but she refused to go again and I could'nt do that every bloody week. Ditto homework club/science club.

She has never been diagnosed with any SENs, her teachers have always stated that she is very bright and would do fine if she would just shut up and listen. She seems to have disengaged with reality and decided that she was going to become a singer/rapper so school was not important. She spends hours writing rap lyrics and listening to that bloody Iggy Azalea (most annoying songs ever). She has even insisted that she will be moving to LA as soon as she is 18 and do whatever it takes to become a 'sooperstarrr' and I fully support her in that 'dream' and hope she can achieve it (not by moving to LA and living in the bins waiting to be discovered though ) but she needs to at least get some qualifications first!

I could bloody shake her very hard. She thinks she knows everything. Aaaarrrrgggh. Any suggestions on what to do with her?

UptheChimney- my background is in the performing arts myself :) So I do also have a handle on the field.

Vivacia- that's kind of missing my point- we can't know if this girl is driven by the music rather than the possible fame, I know. But the fact she has energy and gets excited about the rapping thing- to me that shows there is lots of energy and enthusiasm there. It's a matter of harnessing it, and at 16 she has loads of time.

Cory- I wasn't referring to the positive supportive attitude, rather the rather surprising amount of cutting opinions that she needs to grow up/ get a low paid job/ has no commitment etc.

Agree with your second paragraph at 12:23 completely Indestructible.

Indestructible, your ideas about saving up for better equipment and putting stuff on YouTube sounds a good one. The problem for this girl atm seems to be that she is very isolated and seems to live in her own little bubble: she needs to start interacting with others about her music.

Loads of time for what? Exactly how long would you give her to sit around and do nothing in pursuit of this dream?

Midnite, I have never said "sit around and do nothing". What I have said is to explore and experiment and find out what she enjoys, take steps towards becoming skilled in those areas, and consider what could become a career/ job, that feeds into her real long-term goals. Which might be music but equally might turn out to be something else. Because she's 16. She doesn't have to have all the answers at 16.

The problem for this girl atm seems to be that she is very isolated and seems to live in her own little bubble: she needs to start interacting with others about her music.

Exactly. It's the equivalent of me hitting a tennis ball against the garage wall in preparation for my dream of winning Wimbledon. So long as you don't do what you do publicly, no-one can tell you you're not going to make it. I think the key thing in the arts is emotional resilience. You have to cope with a lot of rejection before someone (maybe) "gets" you. You have to love what you're doing and be prepared to do it despite the fact that maybe no-one will ever "get" you. Maybe she doesn't have to go to a performing arts school, but she does need to get out there, and be prepared to take advice, some of which will not be what she wants to hear. You have to network. You have to do stuff you'd rather not, just like any other job.

Using it as a lever sounds like a good idea. Some kind of trade-off: you do x and we will help with y. But the prerequisite for the trade-off should be that the girl herself takes responsibility for making any arrangements.

I think you misunderstand TheSecondComing. Noone is saying that stage school or ballet school were a prerequisite, those were just examples of the type of commitment.

The point is that if you have dreams about a performing career (or any other career) you go out there and find out what possible different paths there might be, what other people in the field have done, and then you plan accordingly.

For somebody who dreams of acting that may mean stage school (increasingly common these days), or it may mean a university with a very good drama course, or it may mean youth theatres and working on the fringe. All those are possible ways in. But it's not going to be sitting at home in your own room with your dreams.

For someone dreaming of a career as a singer, it may or may not mean formal singing training, but it is certainly going to include taking active steps to perform in front of an audience, usually in some kind of band.

I think you need to back right off and trust that she will do the right thing.

Sounds like she's had a rubbish time at school and, let's face it, trying to force her hasn't worked.

Tell her she is 16 now and you are handing over the reigns. She is responsible for whatever she does and you will point her in the direction of information /support but you won't sort it for her.

Let her talk to the college. Give her a lift but let her go in alone and tell her you trust her to make her own decisions because everything is easier when it is our choice and it is her life, not yours.

Listen to what she has to say (really listen) and ask her if you can do anything practical (not financial - let her make her own money if she wants to access a recording studio etc but offer suggestions for finding work) to help.

It's a hard route to take but you have to let her find her own way.

Of course she will make mistakes but you can help a lot by changing the dynamics and being a supportive advisor rather than someone who treats her like a child and doesn't trust her.

Obviously she has to respect you in return - it's a two way street but that tends to come naturally if you really do step back and support rather than take over.

Work with her, not against her. Rebelling is boring if your parent doesn't stop you doing it!

Re-reading the OP, would it be worth having your daughter assessed by one of the psycho-analytic career counselling services. Morrisby ? Is one I think. My son's school puts all the boys through this and it looks at aptitude and personality as well as career paths and intellectual strengths and weaknesses. It affirmed what we knew but I wonder if there are "issues" faced by your dd that have not been picked up. Could an underlying problem like dyslexia, ADD, ODD, be at the root of her bad behaviour which she has used to cover up what she feels are short-comings. The more I re-read your OP the more I think something else is going on here. Did the school ever assess her as a result of her behaviour?

It's a good plan He11y, but the OP needs to have thought through how she will handle it if her dd simply does nothing. Letting her sit at home aged 16 is no longer a legal option (it would also mean the stopping of child benefit). If the dd doesn't sort out some kind of education/apprenticeship by September, it will be the OP who has to deal with the legal implications.

So the bottom line will have to be that the dd has to organise something.

But otherwise I totally agree.

On the au-pair suggestion - we used to have au-pairs. We wouldn't have taken an under 18 and selected girls who: had experience of childcare (babysitting or younger siblings), could prepare simple meals, and who had followed a sport or another interest such as a musical interest seriously to indicate enthusiasm and commitment. We had, unfailingly girls who had finished the equivalent of 6th form and who were waiting to start teacher training, art foundation, the police force, etc in their own country - one just wanted to improve her English before gong to uni I recall. All provided excellent references from their schools, their sports coaches and those they had done odd jobs/ptime jobs for. The OP's dd is a long way off being in that situation from what I can see.

I feel for you OP and hope this will be a catalyst for both of you.

I think she has to be clear about that, Cory, so she knows it is the law that is making that decision and not them.

But what she chooses to do within the law is up to her.

I also wonder if there is an undiagnosed learning difficulty, marriedinwhitesback. In fact, the OP's posts are screaming that at me!

agree au pair work would probably be difficult at her age; agencies always seem to ask for 18+

the volunteering the OP mentioned sounds more useful

I was thinking the same, married and He11y. I have dealt with people with ADHD in the past, and that sense of being out of touch with reality is something I recognise. It can actually be a great strength; they carry on regardless because they simply don't understand the odds. But they need guidance because they can be equally unrealistic in their choice of ways and means.

Another thought is that NT teens do also react with unrealistic strops when they don't see their way forward, and that something small and practical to do can make all the difference.

Dd did come across as equally unreasonable a few years ago when she was tied to a wheelchair and missing copious amounts of school. I imagine she knew in her heart of hearts that this was not the time to be signing up for film auditions or looking around for an agent but somehow it became an expression for her frustrations. Now that she is black and blue and being walked all over by sturdy RADA applicants, her dreams are a lot smaller but she is also a lot happier.

The main problem for the OP just now, imo, is that there isn't a lot of time. The law demands that her dd should be in (more or less) full time education for the next academic year, but the colleges start next week, and it is going to be very difficult to get a place halfway through the term. College interviews are held this week, not throughout the year. So realistically, the OP has a day or two to get her dd on board to the point where she at least agrees to speak to the college.

OP, I'd let her go out to work. After a few years, she'll realise how much everything costs, what education she needs to progress to a higher paid job, and eat humble pie and go back and do these courses, maybe go to university as well.

Reality will catch up with her soon enough. I'd say as little as possible, though it must be horrendously difficult.

Storytime: my friend, who got similar marks to your daughter, went a bit wild, left highschool, got a crap job in a shop, saved up and travelled overseas for ages, earning as she went (teaching English, working in ski resorts). She had a blast. Then she sobered up, did science at the community college and has just been accepted into the second year of medical school at the grand old age of 28. :) So, long-term, it worked out for her, but she just wasn't able to knuckle down when she was a teenager. Nothing could have made her, and it's a shame her mother reacted as badly as she did (kicked her out, so that my friend was living in a car in another friend's backyard one winter) because now my friend and her mum don't speak at all.

maltesefalcon, did you not read jojo's post? The law has changed, allowing her to leave education at 16 is no longer an option:

"In 2008, a new law was passed that makes important changes for all young people in England. The new law is called the Education and Skills Act 2008. It says that by 2013, all young people in England have to stay on in education or training at least part-time until they are 17 years old. By 2015, all young people will have to stay on in education or training at least part-time, until they are 18 years old.

This means that young people are required to participate in education or training through either:

full-time education or training, including school, college and home education;
work-based learning, such as an Apprenticeship, or
part-time education or training or volunteering more than 20 hours a week."

If she got a job she would have to show that it contained a training element, like an apprenticeship.

With any luck she will decide that the lower level course and some retakes are the best option given the new law on leaving school. The good news is she already has that place.

Not saying I necessarily approve of this law, but speaking as someone who has had to spend endless hours sweet-talking EWO's I would not encourage the OP and her dd to ignore it either.

The lower level course sounds like the best option to me tbh. It might just be the opportunity she needs to meet some new people and regain her drive.

Ha ha Holla, it was quite an eye-opener!

Think the Maths teacher and I realised we had a better time at university than is strictly professional, though

I have come to the conclusion that maturity in teens is realising that you are responsible for your own outcomes in life. That is a scary and exciting realisation all at once, and this is what we should help our kids with.

It took me quite a while to realise that my lower-than-expected A Level grade wasn't all the 'shit teacher's fault': she was shit, but I didn't do anything to compensate for this in that subject (extra study, tell anyone, look for an alternative). So no matter how talented I am, I am always going to be beaten by the one who has talent and puts in the extra effort. (Voila MATURITY)

In fact, you can be surpassed by someone less talented than you who works harder or is more proactive.

Despite doing generally well, I never 'shone' until I was in my early twenties and half-way through a degree because I never really believed I could control my outcomes through my own efforts and decisions (Was much-loved, if a little mollycoddled, as a teenager!!!).

Have faith, OP. I can't help seeing an insecure girl here who is being defiant because she is confused and disappointed. Give her control, and present her with related options, not ultimatums, is my advice.

And drink some . Lots and lots of through that gritted teeth smile...